Helping the runner??

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Forksref

I called one last year from my R position. QB keeps the ball. Diminutive tailback pushes him with both hands. Pretty easy call. As the tailback was running off the field, I overheard the coach say, "Who are you, Reggie Bush?"

My high school coach told me this story once. He said he would always see teams push the runner in, but it never gets called. So he decides, heck, we will do it too. So his runner did it and got called and his convo with the WH went like this:

"What did he do?"
"He pushed the runner into the EZ"
"Why did you call it?"
"It's assisting the runner coach"
"I know it's assisting the runner! But how come you freakin guys never call it when other teams do it!" (said half jokingly but not really)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Our terminal officials call the illegal formation...

Are those the officials at the train station or the ones with cancer?

[DocLogic]

The first two calls were right on.

I wouldn't have called the aiding the runner....... you aren't wrong for calling that, it's a "by the book call" ......but that wouldn't have been called in a college or pro game..... and that is a standard.

I'm not going to call a push from behind. I have called aiding the runner before when a team mate grabbed and pulled a runner into the endzone, but a push I'm going to let go.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by DocLogic

The first two calls were right on.

I wouldn't have called the aiding the runner....... you aren't wrong for calling that, it's a "by the book call" ......but that wouldn't have been called in a college or pro game..... and that is a standard.

Each level has it's own set of unique rules, for a reason. The same holds true for "standards".

[Mike L]

It would be more accurate to say, especially in HS ball, each area has it's own standards. I know around my neck of the woods we do not want that flag for aiding the runner in the example given.

[Time2Ref]

I didn't call it. It was like I couldn't believe it. I still wonder what was up on that play.

A snaps the ball and the left tackle pulls to the right. As he runs past the quaterback (who is dropping back....rather slowly) he pushes the quarterback in the back towards his own goal line.

As I keep playing it back in my mind, I'm guessing that he was helping his quarterback drop back a little quicker.

I kept watching for it to happen again, never did. Maybe he was pushing off so that he could get to his assignment faster. But I keep thinking this was another coach trying to gain an advantage........

Coach, to team: Our quarterback has one fine passing arm. The problem is....he is way too slow getting back to the pocket.......How can we, as a team, help him to get back to the pocket quicker.....

Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

I didn't call it. It was like I couldn't believe it. I still wonder what was up on that play.

A snaps the ball and the left tackle pulls to the right. As he runs past the quaterback (who is dropping back....rather slowly) he pushes the quarterback in the back towards his own goal line.

As I keep playing it back in my mind, I'm guessing that he was helping his quarterback drop back a little quicker.

I kept watching for it to happen again, never did. Maybe he was pushing off so that he could get to his assignment faster. But I keep thinking this was another coach trying to gain an advantage........

Coach, to team: Our quarterback has one fine passing arm. The problem is....he is way too slow getting back to the pocket.......How can we, as a team, help him to get back to the pocket quicker.....

Anyway, I just had to get this off my chest.

Didn't get called, huh? [breaking out notebook, furtively taking notes, drawing diagram]

Seriously, though, the QB's getting in the way of pulling linemen is a considerable coaching concern. Usually, though, the fear is of their feet getting tangled, and pushing out of the way isn't going to help with that.

[sloth]

Originally Posted by DocLogic

The first two calls were right on.

I wouldn't have called the aiding the runner....... you aren't wrong for calling that, it's a "by the book call" ......but that wouldn't have been called in a college or pro game..... and that is a standard.

I'm not going to call a push from behind. I have called aiding the runner before when a team mate grabbed and pulled a runner into the endzone, but a push I'm going to let go.

I agree. I'm not saying it was a bad call, but here in central Indiana, I don't know of any referee that would flag that as aiding the runner (and I'm a referee). My thoughts (and what I've seen) is that aiding the runner comes into play if an offensive player is holding up a ball carrier who would go to the ground without the help. Also, pulling a ball carrier will bring that flag. A push in the back of the ball carrier will not get called. Again, I'm not bashing the OP and his flag, just commenting on the standards in my neck of the woods.

[DrMooreReferee]

Originally Posted by sloth

I agree. I'm not saying it was a bad call, but here in central Indiana, I don't know of any referee that would flag that as aiding the runner (and I'm a referee). My thoughts (and what I've seen) is that aiding the runner comes into play if an offensive player is holding up a ball carrier who would go to the ground without the help. Also, pulling a ball carrier will bring that flag. A push in the back of the ball carrier will not get called. Again, I'm not bashing the OP and his flag, just commenting on the standards in my neck of the woods.

I certainly don't feel like anyone is bashing my call. I asked for you guys' opinions. Its all good. I still feel like it was a pretty clear case of helping the runner. But I also understand that different folks look at things a little differently. And there are different philosophies all over the place on how to deal with things. Its all good, I love the discussions.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

I still feel like it was a pretty clear case of helping the runner.

If you judged that he gained an advantage by it, then I think you've done good. Philosophy or not, it is a rule and if advantage is gained, it should be called. Just my opnion.

[ajmc]

It all depends on the specific details of each play, but, when a bigger lineman or linbacker (maybe even more than one) stops a usually smaller running back, and another bigger offensive player tries to use that smaller player as a battering ram to force him through the defense, it can be problematic and dangerous for that smaller player.

Nobody ever bothers to wonder about how the battering ram felt, after using it to knock down some really hard doors.

[FTVMartin]

I wouldn't have called aiding the runner in that clip but it was correct by the book. I am a U and I called this in a playoff game this week when a lineman turned around and pulled a runner into the endzone with both hands on the runners shoulder pads.

I have never called six guys on the line from the U spot. I've never even looked for it.