Two strange JV plays from this evening

[BktBallRef]

#1, It's 4th and 7 inside B's 10. A12 runs the ball, has the first down but fumbles and Team B picks up the fumble and runs into his end zone when an inadvertent whistle blows? What's the correct ruling?

#2, A28 runs for a score. As he crosses the goal line, A88 hits B57 at the B15. 9 yards deep in the end zone, B29 tackles A28. A's dead ball foul occurs first, followed by B's dead ball foul. What are the enforcement options?

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, It's 4th and 7 inside B's 10. A12 runs the ball, has the first down but fumbles and Team B picks up the fumble and runs into his end zone when an inadvertent whistle blows? What's the correct ruling?

#2, A28 runs for a score. As he crosses the goal line, A88 hits B57 at the B15. 9 yards deep in the end zone, B29 tackles A28. A's dead ball foul occurs first, followed by B's dead ball foul. What are the enforcement options?

#1, B has the choice of taking the result of the play (safety) or replaying the down (and giving the ball back to A).

#2, If I'm correct, this situation gives B an advantage even though they fouled second. Since you enforce them in order, A has to declare their intentions first and B can counter.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe

#2, If I'm correct, this situation gives B an advantage even though they fouled second. Since you enforce them in order, A has to declare their intentions first and B can counter.

A fouled first, so B chooses first.

Each team has 2 options, which means 4 possible outcomes:

1. B takes penalty on try (ball to B18), then A takes penalty on try (ball to B9). Ball on B9 for the try, A40 for the kickoff.

2. B takes penalty on try, then A takes penalty on kickoff. Ball on B18 for the try, B45 for the kickoff.

3. B takes penalty on the kickoff, then A takes penalty on the try. Ball on B1.5 for the try, A25 for the kickoff.

4. B takes penalty on the kickoff (ball to A25), then A takes penalty on the kickoff (ball to A40). Ball on B3 for the try, A40 for the kickoff.

#3 won't happen unless A are eejits. I suspect that the likely outcomes are #1 and #4, depending on what B does. #1 gives B an advantage.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbyron

A fouled first, so B chooses first.

Each team has 2 options, which means 4 possible outcomes:

1. B takes penalty on try (ball to B18), then A takes penalty on try (ball to B9). Ball on B9 for the try, A40 for the kickoff.

2. B takes penalty on try, then A takes penalty on kickoff. Ball on B18 for the try, B45 for the kickoff.

3. B takes penalty on the kickoff, then A takes penalty on the try. Ball on B1.5 for the try, A25 for the kickoff.

4. B takes penalty on the kickoff (ball to A25), then A takes penalty on the kickoff (ball to A40). Ball on B3 for the try, A40 for the kickoff.

#3 won't happen unless A are eejits. I suspect that the likely outcomes are #1 and #4, depending on what B does. #1 gives B an advantage.

Depending on the situation and captains' opinions (OK, actually coaches' opinions), I could see any of those combinations reasonably taken. If A is 1 point behind minus the try, I could see B choosing to get the field position advantage and then A wanting a better shot at a 2 point conversion. If the score is tied, I could easily see B wanting to make a try kick harder and then A wanting to make it easier. No idiocy required.

[MRH]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

#1, It's 4th and 7 inside B's 10. A12 runs the ball, has the first down but fumbles and Team B picks up the fumble and runs into his end zone when an inadvertent whistle blows?

I'm guessing the momentum rule did not apply??

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MRH

I'm guessing the momentum rule did not apply??

The momentum rule doesn't apply when a fumble is picked up.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The momentum rule doesn't apply when a fumble is picked up.

Yes it does. Recovering a fumble is one of the times the momentum exception could be in effect. I can post a rules reference when I get home.

[Welpe]

As promised, 8-5-2a:

8-5-2 It is a safety when:

a) A runner carries the ball from the field of play to or across his own goal line, and it becomes dead there in his team’s possession.

EXCEPTION: When a defensive player intercepts an opponent’s forward pass; intercepts or recovers an opponent’s fumble or backward pass; or an R player catches or recovers a scrimmage kick or free kick between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team’s possession or it goes out of bounds in the end zone, the ball belongs to the team in possession at the spot where the

[BktBallRef]

Thanks. I forgot that had added recovery.

In any case, the ball was recovered between the 7 and 8 yard line.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thanks. I forgot that had added recovery.

In any case, the ball was recovered between the 7 and 8 yard line.

The OP you said it was 4th and 7 inside the 10 yard line and the runner had picked up the first down. This means he fumbled inside the 3 so momentum could definitely apply. Did you mis-state this or did the fumble go back several yards? You are correct that if the fumble was recovered at the 7 or 8, momentum would not apply.

[NewGaRef]

The choice will be team Bs. They can elect to take possession where the ball becomes dead when the whitsle is blown (which is in the end zone) and take a safety, bad choice or they can choose to replay the down. They will choose to replay the down and hope to stop A on 4th and 7 inside B's 10. B's coach will be hot.....[/QUOTE]

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by NewGaRef

The choice will be team Bs. They can elect to take possession where the ball becomes dead when the whitsle is blown (which is in the end zone) and take a safety, bad choice or they can choose to replay the down. They will choose to replay the down and hope to stop A on 4th and 7 inside B's 10. B's coach will be hot.....

How do you know the safety would be a bad choice? It might be a very good one.

[procivil]

Can you explain how you arrived at "ball to B9" on Option 1

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by procivil

Can you explain how you arrived at "ball to B9" on Option 1

I guess that's to me. Sure: IIRC, two dead ball personal fouls, each enforced in the order it occurred. Enforce the penalty on A first, moves the ball 15 yards from the B3 to the B18. Then enforce the penalty on B, moves the ball half the distance to the goal, which is to the B9.

[procivil]

Thanks for the reply, but Im still confused. If the enforcement of the first penalty brings it to the 18, wouldnt the enforcement of the second penalty bring it back to the 3?