Offensive encroachment??

[Rock Chalk]

2nd time as a WH in my life last night and twice we had WR's lining up a yard off the ball, in the wrong direction, they were on the defensive side of the ball. I signaled encroachment both times because i could think of no other signal besides maybe illegal formation. Did i get this right or did I kick it?

[jTheUmp]

You got it right. A is guilty of encroachment if any part of an A player's body (except for the snapper) is in the neutral zone.

[mbyron]

How did your wing let him line up there? Something's fishy: you should never have encroachment like that.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by mbyron

How did your wing let him line up there? Something's fishy: you should never have encroachment like that.

He repeatedly told him to get back, and after plays would come up to them and tell them they were too far ahead. They apparently didn't listen to him.

[whitehat]

Encroachment is correct, RC. you got it right! don't you just love it when that happens?!

On the few occassions when I get to be a wing I will offer some help by telling the kid to back up or at least give him a second or so, as long as the snap is not imminent, to back up. Looks like your wing tried this more than once. Despite being a strong advocate of preventive officiating, bottom line is it is not the officials job to line a kid up...

Despite people who are a little to quick with the second guess and judgment trigger on this and other forums, the best possible learning environmnet is to ask questions like this in a safe evironmnet and all of us,regardless of experience level, to keep learning each game!

[Robert Goodman]

Suppose the neutral zone is set, and team A is playing without huddling. A1, returning from B's side of B's line of scrimmage, stops at a point where he's still encroaching. The wing official says, "Here's your line of scrimmage" and points, and A1 stands offside and drools. A's snapper isn't over the ball yet, but is getting there. At what point do you kill the play in Fed?

[jTheUmp]

Same as you do it when the defense lines up in the neutral zone in FED... kill it just before the snap.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Suppose the neutral zone is set, and team A is playing without huddling. A1, returning from B's side of B's line of scrimmage, stops at a point where he's still encroaching. The wing official says, "Here's your line of scrimmage" and points, and A1 stands offside and drools. A's snapper isn't over the ball yet, but is getting there. At what point do you kill the play in Fed?

(just like if the D lined up offside) I would give him ample time to move back. If he did not, I will blow it dead and call them for encroachment.

[ML99]

I had a situation - REC lined up far in the neutral zone and didn't listen to me to step back.

1) what would you do in this case - if the player doesn't listen to you? kill the play before the snap? flag it?

2) what to do if the player readjusts and moves back - at the same time the snaps starts.

3) what to do if the player readjusts and moves back - at the same time the snaps starts + another player is in motion

I threw a flag since the play started and he was 1-2 yrds in the neutral zone at the snap. When I reported to the HR he asked me for the foul and I told him enchroachment Offense. He replyed "why didn't you kill the play before the snap - we can't give them a penalty now after the play is over".

[mbyron]

1. Depends on the level, but for varsity I'd kill it before or at the snap.
2. Assuming he's out of the NZ, legal.
3. I would not flag illegal motion the first time that happened, but talk to him. I won't get him for the motion because he's doing what I told him to do. If it keeps happening you'd have to get it.

Your white hat wasn't entirely correct, but I get what he was driving at. If you let the play go, you can't then call encroachment, which is a dead-ball foul. But he could still have signaled illegal motion or formation or something to penalize the foul and gone on from there.

[stegenref]

Originally Posted by ML99

1) what would you do in this case - if the player doesn't listen to you? kill the play before the snap? flag it?

2) what to do if the player readjusts and moves back - at the same time the snaps starts.

I had a play like #1) last night....several times. WR lines up in the neutral zone, then turns his head and points at me, then quickly looks back to the line of scrimmage without even waiting to see what I'd say / signal...so he didn't have a chance to see me telling him to back up. I killed the play right before the snap and threw the flag on him for encroachment.

I had play #2) earlier in the year, but didn't call it...I was on the defensive sideline, right in front of the coach, so he went ape when I told the receiver to back up and he was backing up at the snap. I looked up the rule and discussed it here online and basically decided it was a good no-call since he was moving backwards at the snap. Technically though, he should have been five yards deep at the snap to be legal.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by ML99

I had a situation - REC lined up far in the neutral zone and didn't listen to me to step back.

1) what would you do in this case - if the player doesn't listen to you? kill the play before the snap? flag it?

2) what to do if the player readjusts and moves back - at the same time the snaps starts.

3) what to do if the player readjusts and moves back - at the same time the snaps starts + another player is in motion

I threw a flag since the play started and he was 1-2 yrds in the neutral zone at the snap. When I reported to the HR he asked me for the foul and I told him enchroachment Offense. He replyed "why didn't you kill the play before the snap - we can't give them a penalty now after the play is over".

1) Kill it and flag it.

2) If he was set for 1 sec, then ok. If not, it's an illegal shift.

3) If another player is CLEARLY in motion, then I'd flag it for illegal shift. If another player is just starting his motion, I would probably let it go.

[Refsmitty]

If he is in the NZ at the RFP it is considered encroachment by rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

If he is in the NZ at the RFP it is considered encroachment by rule.

100% on the test.

Now in real life....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bossman72

1) Kill it and flag it.

2) If he was set for 1 sec, then ok. If not, it's an illegal shift.

3) If another player is CLEARLY in motion, then I'd flag it for illegal shift. If another player is just starting his motion, I would probably let it go.

If I'm telling another player to move back, it's unlikely I'm then going to flag him for an illegal motion or illegal shift. No impossible, but unlikely.

This is less likely to happen on a varsity game than during a JV/Freshman/Youth game.