Defense block below waist

[phansen]

NFHS

A1, the left guard pulls and attempts to block B1, the left defensive end. B1 sees the guard pulling to kick him out and cuts A1 so he won't widen the hole for A2 the running back.

I believe this is a legal block by B1 as all the conditions are met. Both A1 and B1 were on their lines of scrimmage, the block happened in the zone and the ball was handed off in the zone. The free bocking zone rules apply to both A and B players equally, right? Am I missing something? The coach sure thought I was!!

[Refsmitty]

My understanding is that if they are in the box 3x4 at the snap, that block would be legal.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

My understanding is that if they are in the box 3x4 at the snap, that block would be legal.

They both need to be on the line plus the other FBZ requirements.

phansen, if all requirements of the free blocking zone were met, both players were on the line at the snap and the contact was in the zone, you were right. Sounds like you nailed it, despite what the coach thinks (big surprise there).

[Welpe]

The rule of thumb I use for free blocking zone activity is this (assuming all other FBZ requirements are met):

*An A lineman can clip a B lineman
*An A lineman can block a B lineman below the waist
*A B lineman can block an A lineman below the waist
*An A lineman can block any B player in the back if that player is in the FBZ at the snap.

Notice that there is only one of those things that B is allowed to do.

[Refsmitty]

ART. 5 . . . The free-blocking zone disintegrates and the exception for a player
Rule 2-18 2009 NFHS Football Rules Page 30
to block below the waist and/or the exception for an offensive lineman to clip
and/or block in the back is not to continue after the ball has left the zone.

What exactly is meant by the ball leaving the zone. Once snapped in a shotgun formation - has it left the zone? Once snapped and the QB turns to hand it back to a runner - has it left the zone?

[Welpe]

Once the ball is no longer in the free blocking zone, the zone disintergrates for the down. Even if the ball leaves for a second. Yes you are correct that on a snap that goes outside the zone, the zone is gone.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by phansen

I believe this is a legal block by B1 as all the conditions are met. Both A1 and B1 were on their lines of scrimmage, the block happened in the zone and the ball was handed off in the zone.

Assuming A1 was in the FBZ at the snap, was the defender in the FBZ at the snap? That's the one requirement you didn't list .

[buckrog64]

The problem is different interpretations on BBW (not big beautiful women) in a shotgun snap, coming from the different state associations. In Iowa, we have been told that the initial block must be instant along with the snap....no hesitation. If there is hesitation, it's a flag. Seems to me they could easily clarify this rule by saying no BBW period, if the QB is in shotgun position or not in position to received direct hand to hand snap. It would eliminate a lot of misunderstandings and a lack of continuity from one crew to the next.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

The problem is different interpretations on BBW (not big beautiful women) in a shotgun snap, coming from the different state associations. In Iowa, we have been told that the initial block must be instant along with the snap....no hesitation. If there is hesitation, it's a flag. Seems to me they could easily clarify this rule by saying no BBW period, if the QB is in shotgun position or not in position to received direct hand to hand snap. It would eliminate a lot of misunderstandings and a lack of continuity from one crew to the next.

Buck, I think that's why state associations come out with how they want it called.

In NC, the lineman must be in a three or four point stance and his initial charge must be forward. Rationale: If he's in a two point stance or he takes a step back, the FBZ has disintegrated before he can make the block.

Agree or disagree, that's the interp we're given so that everyone is consistent and there are no questions.

[phansen]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The rule of thumb I use for free blocking zone activity is this (assuming all other FBZ requirements are met):

*An A lineman can clip a B lineman
*An A lineman can block a B lineman below the waist
*A B lineman can block an A lineman below the waist
*An A lineman can block any B player in the back if that player is in the FBZ at the snap.

Notice that there is only one of those things that B is allowed to do.

Welpe

where does it say that B can't block in the back or clip an A lineman if all conditions of the FBZ are met?

[phansen]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Assuming A1 was in the FBZ at the snap, was the defender in the FBZ at the snap? That's the one requirement you didn't list .

Without gettin my tape measure out, I'd say at least part of him was in the zone, therefore he meets the requirement of being in the zone at the snap

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by phansen

Welpe

where does it say that B can't block in the back or clip an A lineman if all conditions of the FBZ are met?

read the definitions under Free Blocking Zone.

[phansen]

Originally Posted by Mike L

read the definitions under Free Blocking Zone.

Thank you

I learned something new today

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Mike L

read the definitions under Free Blocking Zone.

What Mike said. Rule 2.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

What exactly is meant by the ball leaving the zone. Once snapped in a shotgun formation - has it left the zone? Once snapped and the QB turns to hand it back to a runner - has it left the zone?

It means the actual position of the ball w.r.t. the FBZ. However, some state assocs. have adopted interpret'ns deeming an immediate block whose motion begins at the snap to beat the snap's leaving the FBZ, and IIRC at least one state deems the snap's leaving the FBZ to beat all contact.