Punt Situation

[kdf5]

5-1-4...Unless first touched by R beyond the neutral zone, if the kickers recover a scrimmage kick in or behind the neutral zone, the ball remains live and belongs to K and the down counts.

K could have advanced the ball beyond the line to gain after their recovery and been awarded a new series but they didn't so the ball should have gone over to R at the K-15.

[bossman72]

If the ball was touched beyond the NZ by R - K's ball at the 15.

If the ball was touched behind the NZ by R (which I think happened in your play) - R's ball at the 15 since touching is ignored behind the Expanded NZ on all scrimmage kicks.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kdf5

5-1-4...Unless first touched by R beyond the neutral zone, if the kickers recover a scrimmage kick in or behind the neutral zone, the ball remains live and belongs to K and the down counts.

Right: imagine a blocked kick, which is touched behind the NZ. If K recovers, the down counts.

R first touching this kick after it rolls back behind the NZ counts as the same in principle.

[bigjohn]

WOW, What a ridiculously blown call.

[bbcof83]

Thanks for the help guys (minus BigJohn's useless comment). It was a soph game where K was down 48-0 with running time in the 4th quarter so luckily the call didn't affect the outcome. Also, the touching by R was very close to the neutral zone on the sideline with no official on it (3 person mechanics, LJ was back with receivers) so we didn't have a great look at where the ball was touched by R. Nonetheless, should have been R ball, glad I asked this question.

OK, same play but 5 person mechanics varsity, and the LJ gets a good look at where R touched. Say he touched very close to or at the neutral zone, it's bang bang. You are the LJ and it's totally your decision whether it is beyond or behind NZ. Which way do you lean?

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

Thanks for the help guys (minus BigJohn's useless comment). It was a soph game where K was down 48-0 with running time in the 4th quarter so luckily the call didn't affect the outcome. Also, the touching by R was very close to the neutral zone on the sideline with no official on it (3 person mechanics, LJ was back with receivers) so we didn't have a great look at where the ball was touched by R. Nonetheless, should have been R ball, glad I asked this question.

OK, same play but 5 person mechanics varsity, and the LJ gets a good look at where R touched. Say he touched very close to or at the neutral zone, it's bang bang. You are the LJ and it's totally your decision whether it is beyond or behind NZ. Which way do you lean?

I'd lean to touched behind the NZ.

[bigjohn]

provided such kick has
been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time
of touching.


Also, doesn't the LJ release in 5 man mechanics, leaving this call to the L & the U?

http://football.refs.org/mechanics/punt5.html

[bigjohn]

How is that for USEFUL comment!

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

provided such kick has
been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time
of touching.


Also, doesn't the LJ release in 5 man mechanics, leaving this call to the L & the U?

Punts and Scrimmage Kicks - 5 Man Mechanics - Football.Refs.Org

(H)L makes this call alone. U isn't moving up to line of scrimmage on a punt play.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

OK, same play but 5 person mechanics varsity, and the LJ gets a good look at where R touched. Say he touched very close to or at the neutral zone, it's bang bang. You are the LJ and it's totally your decision whether it is beyond or behind NZ. Which way do you lean?

Perhaps it's worth noting that such a kick would have to be very low indeed, which makes the play both unlikely and fairly easy to rule on: until the kick, the R linemen are usually moving upfield toward the kicker.

So: I agree with mikesears, and lean toward "behind the NZ."

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

Say he touched very close to or at the neutral zone, it's bang bang. You are the LJ and it's totally your decision whether it is beyond or behind NZ. Which way do you lean?

I would suggest you totally remove words like near, very close, almost, kind of, slightly and little bit from your football vocabulary. The first thing that must be determined is whether something is, or isn't.

The only thing I can think of in the rules of football that happens simultaneously is a simultaneous catch, which is clearly defined. Rules are designed to separate black from white, yes from no, is from isn't. Like the word "Pregnant" there's only is, or isn't and nothing inbetween.

[bigjohn]

+1

touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone