Rules RE: Declined Penalties

[pjerwin]

Hey, thanks, guys, for all the input.

Just one more request for clarification: regardless of how YOU would have handled the situation leading up to it and regardless of how stupid the decision was (remembering that at the time the coach on the sideline was on board with his team captain), once the decision was made and the official signaled it to the sidelines, do NFHS rules allow the team to then change their mind, and if they can, at what point is that oppotunity lost?

In fact, for clarity's sake, let's just take last night's scenario out of the picture. On ANY penalty call, at what point is a team's decision final?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by pjerwin

, do NFHS rules allow the team to then change their mind, and if they can, at what point is that oppotunity lost?

In fact, for clarity's sake, let's just take last night's scenario out of the picture. On ANY penalty call, at what point is a team's decision final?

What part of, "The Captain is entitled to make a ( "a" as in one) decision once the options are presented to him properly and correctly" are you having trouble with?

"Decision" signifies the end of the process, not the beginning or some mid-point, which is why the preliminary explanation of the options should be clear, concise, accurate and complete. Once the decision is made, our job is to implement it. There is no review, no further discussion, no ammendments.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by pjerwin

, do NFHS rules allow the team to then change their mind, and if they can, at what point is that oppotunity lost?

In fact, for clarity's sake, let's just take last night's scenario out of the picture. On ANY penalty call, at what point is a team's decision final?

What part of, "The Captain is entitled to make a ( "a" as in one) decision once the options are presented to him properly and correctly" are you having trouble with?

"Decision" signifies the end of the process, not the beginning or some mid-point, which is why the preliminary explanation of the options should be clear, concise, accurate, complete and perhaps most importantly understood. There is no time limit on assuring that the options are understood, but once the decision is made, our job is to implement it. There is no review, no further discussion, no ammendments.

[pjerwin]

Gee whiz -- sorry for being so thick, eh. I suppose the part that gave me pause was ajmc's "once the options are presented to him properly and correctly" and RichMSN's "I am not a believer in the 'make the captain live with the stupid decision' camp."

[HLin NC]

There isn't [B]A[B] rule per se. By the book, if the captain made his choice he's locked in. That doesn't mean the referee is.

The referee should be doing what is best using his best judgment and in the interests of the game in a situation such as this. Since none of us were present, we have no idea what was discussed between the referee and the captain. The referee could have given faulty or erroneous information and was correcting his error.

Sure there are two camps usually- 1) make 'em live with it, and 2) don't let them screw it up. Camp 2 will usually be more respected by their peers and the players, coaches, and game administration.

These aren't professional players, coaches, nor officials. While all should strive to do their best, the level of expectation of their performances should not reach that of a professional.

[Rich]

Yup. I'm in camp 2.

Matter of fact, my captain's meetings at halftime are probably the least wordy. I know who has the option and I usually point at the captain and ask "Receive?" When he nods, I'll point at the other captain and say "Which goal will you defend?"

When one captain defers at the toss, I'll point at the other captain and say "Receive?"

When the choice is obvious, I don't even bother with the captain. I worked a wing in a youth game last night and watched a painful 90 second conversation regarding OPI. I wanted to scream, "Of COURSE they want it! It carries a LOD along with the 15 yards!" I would've had the ball in play and we would've run a play or 2 during that whole scene.

I ask the coaches at the pregame meeting if the captains know what he wants. Most times, then, the coach will tell me they want to receive/defer and I note that in case the kid is confused at the toss.

I'm not out there to be a harda$$ or play gotcha games with the captains and coaches. I'm there to facilitate. If I give incomplete information and the captain chooses poorly I will allow the captain or coach to change his mind. When the other coach complains, I will take the blame for it and remind him that I'd do the same for his captain. And off we go.

Many times I am the most experienced person out there (including the coaches). Everyone has a lot on their minds. It's my job to make things run smoothly.