I'm sure you guys have gotten this one before...

[UFco2001]

I'm not going to say which side I'm on in this argument...but I'm pretty sure I'm right about this and could use an unbiased opinion from guys who definitely know the rules.

This is the famous Clint Stoerner play...I'm guessing you've all seen it before:

It's grainy, but you can see the relevant part in the replay.

YouTube - OH MY GOODNESS!!!

NCAA rules, obviously...ruled a fumble on the field...Correct?

[TXMike]

Easy call. Only ones who don't get it are those who do not know the rules and have the mistaken mantra of "The ground cannot cause a fumble" stuck in their head. The ground CAN cause a fumble in some cases and it did hear. As I said, easy call.

[UFco2001]

I appreciate it...to see the discussion that led me to come looking for independent verification, click here:

Is This A Fumble Before He Crossed The Goal Line? - Page 3 - GatorCountry.com Swamp Gas Forums

[TXMike]

You make a great point re the lack of true controversey. The only place it is an issue is on fan forums and blogs where the uninformed are posting. If there truly was as bad a missed call as this would have been had the runner been down by rule, the major media would have had stories.

CS even admits he fumbled: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...c_stoerner_ap/

Just read through that thread you posted, some real misinformation there. The clip that started it was from the 2005 US Army HS All American Game. That game is played under NCAA rules(although I don't think that even matters as I think the HS rule is the same as the NCAA rule)

[jaybird]

As Mike said, Easy call. Fumble.
This type of action has been discussed before and the rules in all codes state that it is a fumble.

[bisonlj]

There are judgement calls where fans can legitimately argue their team was "screwed" on a call. This was definitely not one of them. Unfortunately the fans on this site have no idea what the rule is. This was so clearly a fumble there was no question.

[chymechowder]

Originally Posted by UFco2001

I appreciate it...to see the discussion that led me to come looking for independent verification, click here:

Is This A Fumble Before He Crossed The Goal Line? - Page 3 - GatorCountry.com Swamp Gas Forums

ha, that's hilarious. not only fumble, but I think you've got unsportsmanlike conduct on white, too! (NCAA rules anyway)...although maybe the officials took pity on white and didnt' call it.

[InsideTheStripe]

I love this quote on page three of that thread...

2) I registered and posed the exact Clint Stoerner question on officiating.com's football message board. This is where officials spend time discussing oftentimes very boring and arcane rules/interpretations, etc. Because that's what they do.

[jaybird]

2) I registered and posed the exact Clint Stoerner question on officiating.com's football message board. This is where officials spend time discussing often times very boring and arcane rules/interpretations, etc. Because that's what they do.

I like. You're right, it does make you smile.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

Only ones who don't get it are those who do not know the rules and have the mistaken mantra of "The ground cannot cause a fumble" stuck in their head. The ground CAN cause a fumble in some cases

Where the heck did that business get started? The whole concept of "cause" sends everyone in the wrong direction. The ground doesn't cause a thing, it just stays there. All people have to do is see which of 2 classes of events occurs first, and ignore this idea that treats the ground as if it were an agent.

Robert

[Ed Hickland]

Think we are all in agreement that football rules are complicated and the average fan gets a good deal of their simplistic rule "knowledge" from the talking heads.

This play the ball was on the ground but the player was not and most of all he had control when he placed the ball on the ground. The loss of control occurred when he went to pick the ball up.

At what point and was he down when he lost control. The fine minds on this forum who study the rules will understand. The Arkansas fan who is fretting over losing the game thinks they were the victim of poor officiating.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Think we are all in agreement that football rules are complicated

They're complicated in toto, but not every single part of them is complicated. This part is simple.

and the average fan gets a good deal of their simplistic rule "knowledge" from the talking heads.

But the talking heads unnecessarily complicate this simple pair of rules (the one determining when a runner is down and the one determining when a ball is in player possession). There's nothing about causation in there, so why do they have to go putting that in?

Robert

[svm1010]

Ok, please don't flame but to be fair (what we're suposed to do right I have noticed that more of the "talking heads" appear to have been studying the rulebooks. I have heared some very acurate explanations to some wild A** plays over the past year or two. an improvement over the 'simplified rules' that they have been spoon feeding the average spectator. Still a long ways to go but at least some of them are making an attempt.

[TXMike]

I would say that is a veryy accurate description.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by TXMike

I would say that is a veryy accurate description.

Of course it is very accurate. It also makes me smile.