What do you guys think?

JosephG678 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 09:29pm

Background: I officiate in a local adult rec league during the summer. And yes, there are alot of techs and arguments...But anyway, there are two courts running next to each other, though seperated by a fence. Picture 4 courts, but it is a 2X2 situation, with each game occuring in seperate rows (1 of 2, 1 of 2)...

Situation: In between the early and late game, while signing themselves in, a player on my court apparently made a profane laced remark directed at the official on the other court (I had not seen it, the official from the other court made me aware of it)...This official then wanted me to start this game (the one on my court) with a technical foul. Now, I had not seen the incident, nor my partner, so I was in a quandry. The commissioner of the league had basically said don't bother with it (giving a T), and thus I issued a warning to the team and said any objectionable behavior/gesturing will be a tech immediately...

After the game, the official was mildly upset with me as I didn't start the game with a tech, but he understood and we are friendly.

I felt a little bad afterwards for violating the official's brotherhood and not defending this official as he did not have the authority to tech a game not on his court. But I also felt I hadn't seen the event, and could not tell whether a tech was indeed deserved.

Just curious what others in the forum would have done...

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 09:32pm

I would have done what you did. Nothing. If you didn't witness it, it would be kinda ridiculous to try to do anything about it. Ah, adult leagues... aren't they fun?

Z

drothamel · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 09:51pm

Sounds like you did the right thing to me. It sucks, because you didn't see or hear it personally. But those are the breaks. . .

It would be the same if a fight occurred during intermission of a HS game while you were still in the dressing room. Nothing you can do about it, unfortunately.

brainbrian · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:17pm

I'm with you on this one.

Just like if some parent came up to you and said, "Call a technical on that kid over there." You wouldn't do it then either.

Back In The Saddle · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:29pm

I won't even pretend that it sucks. Pre-game, you don't need to your have rabbit ears up, and you don't need to go looking for trouble (and you didn't). What happens before and after games off the court in rec ball should, IMHO, be left to the league to deal with. If they want to impose a penalty, great. If not, it's not my problem. If they are so lax that it becomes painful to work there, I have other places I can work.

In more formal settings, like a school game, your juridiction begins at least 15 minutes before the game. But even then, keep the rabbit ears pulled down and don't go patroling for trouble.

If trouble finds you, however, take care of business.

refnrev · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 10:40pm

You can't call what you don't see or hear. Your colleague knows this. You did the right thing.

mick · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 11:01pm

Do nothing.
The other official put you in a tough place.
He did not have to do that.
mick

blindzebra · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 11:34pm

I agree you could not T him before your game, but I'd certainly be aware of anything he had to say or do in my game. I'd have an extremely quick trigger and anything close to the line is getting called.

blindzebra · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 20, 2005, 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by brainbrian
I'm with you on this one.

Just like if some parent came up to you and said, "Call a technical on that kid over there." You wouldn't do it then either.

Apples and oranges.

Big difference in a heads up from a fellow official and a fan/player/coach. I'll listen to the F/P/C, I'll put it in the things to look for bank, but the official's comment carries more weight.

brainbrian · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 12:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Big difference in a heads up from a fellow official and a fan/player/coach. I'll listen to the F/P/C, I'll put it in the things to look for bank, but the official's comment carries more weight.

Well, technically the referee is just another fan at this point. He has no jurisdiction over the game.

But I hear you.

canuckrefguy · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 12:59am

What do I think?

It's one thing for this fellow official to tip you off, and to be looking out for any further garbage.

It's another for him to expect you to issue a T for something you did not hear or see - and then to be pissed at you for not T'ing him.

Mick's right - he put you in a tough spot and he had no right to do that.

You did the right thing - stand tall !

icallfouls · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 10:05am

It sounds like things were handled correctly. If the player and the official have a problem it is for them to deal with.

I go to a camp where the clinicians and assignor have no problem with "carry-over T's (in the next game)." Perhaps the official should consider issuing a "T" the next time the player in question gives him the slightest bit of disrespect on a call. The player will know the situation. If the do not want to "T," then the official could very well call things tight when this player is in the play. He soundsIt sounds like they have a history, so it is upto them to work it out, not you. If you do not have a history with this player, have a clean slate.

It sounds like your assignor would rather that these comments be directed at you or your partner rather than at an official on another floor.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 10:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by icallfouls
sounds like they have a history,

If they didn't, they do now!

Back In The Saddle · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 01:44pm

It would be interesting to know what part the other official played in this situation. He was obviously aware of what the player said. Why was his attention on this player on another court? Was there some kind of exchange before the profane remark? Was the official's part in this matter completely professional? In my experience this kind of action rarely comes entirely out of the blue. Could that have played a part in why the official wanted you to call a T for him?

JosephG678 · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 21, 2005, 06:15pm

The background I believe is the following:

The team on my court is basically a bunch of talented, though rebellious, teenagers and young adults (18-25). They do get themselves in trouble with their mouths. While a game was being played on the other court, one of them had something to say about the official's call (not nice I am sure), which caused the official to respond back to the player (probably equally not nice,) and then the official subsequently asked me to start his (the players) game (the one of my court) with a tech. There is some history I bet because this team talks alot, I have even given them techs. But again, I did not see this occur, and was reluctant to assess the T. I think the original comments were not a personal attack, though profanity was used (i.e., "that was a sh*t call" etc...). This official does however over-officiate with respect to his authority being respected (in my opinion). I did issue them a stern warning and did not have a problem with them, though I told them to cool off the trash-talking...

Hope this gives you some more info...Let me know if you have any other questions...

Joe