Good Block or penalty?

[Rich]

This conversation reminds me of association meetings where we watch videos showing possible illegal blocks in the back and some people want to flag everything that isn't in front or clearly in the side. And I'll be the one there saying: "Was the block between the shoulder blades, yes or no? No? Then it's not a foul. Next."

And yet there will still be people saying it should be flagged cause it's close enough. And mentally I remind myself that should I need a sub for my crew to *not* call on those people.

I treat helmet contact very seriously. My crew ejected a player for spearing 5 years ago and we haven't worked that conference since. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. But I'm not going to make my standards for throwing a flag lesser. I have to see it and be sure of it before I flag it.

[bigjohn]

This is from page 117 of the 2006 S&I guide.



Butt Blocking in 1 and 2 and face tackling in 3 are both tactics which involve driving the face mask, frontal area or top of the helmet directly into an opponent in blocking or tackling respectively. both result in a foul for illegal helmet contact.

If the Rule 2 definition was exactly the same as the S&I would Butt Blocking and Face Tackling be called more often?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

If the Rule 2 definition was exactly the same as the S&I would Butt Blocking and Face Tackling be called more often?

It seems you are obsessed with arguing semantics and splitting hairs down beyond the eyelash level. I submit the reason more contacts with head are not called fouls is because they are not judged to be deliberate nor intentional and are simply perceived as being incidental contact produced by two people moving in opposite directions.

The 3 acts defined in NF: 2-20-1-a-c all require someone to "initiate" contact in an illegal way. You don't seem willing to accept the reality that officials are trained and taught to be "certain" a foul has been committed before declaring one. That is a workable, proper focus that has served this game well for over 100 years, and should not change.

The primary protection against such fouls being committed is in the teaching (coaching) of proper technique and attitude. The most effective tool in deterring such behavior is a coach who teaches technique properly and is willing to discipline players, who fail to follow instructions, by removing them from participation whether any foul is called, or not.

[JRutledge]

You guys should see the same argument he is making on the NFHS website. He is mostly arguing whether we are calling it face tackling or butt blocking as opposed to simply IHC, which has the same penalty no matter what you actually call the act. He even showed examples of video that could not be butt blocking, mainly because it was a tackle. Then he wanted to call another play face tackling when there was a block.

BJ sure brings some entertainment to these discussions.

Peace

[bigjohn]

Deliberate and intentional was removed from the IHC rules.

http://www.aiaonline.org/story/uploa...1138725781.pdf

[BGroovy]

The first block seems like a judgement call. If it looks to you like face tackling or butt blocking throw it. Hard to tell with the video but looks as if he hit him straight on with his shoulder first so I wouldn't have thrown it but would have reminded the kid to watch his blocking so he doesn't commit a IHC foul. I didn't see the helmet contact. The second block was just a good hit. Hit his left shoulder first. Good play on the offense.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Deliberate and intentional was removed from the IHC rules.

http://www.aiaonline.org/story/uploa...1138725781.pdf

John, we know. They changed the rule a few years ago. And even then I know I called it a few times when the words "intentional and deliberate" were in the rulebook. Then again you said it was never called either.

[bigjohn]

My stance is this. If done while tackling it is face tackling, whether the head is up or down. While blocking, it is butt blocking, head up or down. Spearing covers all other hits not included in Blocking or Tackling. The S&I supports me on this and it is a small thing but it may get IHC called more if all officials had the mind set that all helmet initiated contacts are fouls and all should be strictly called.

Butt Blocking in 1 and 2 and face tackling in 3 are both tactics which involve driving the face mask, frontal area or top of the helmet directly into an opponent in blocking or tackling respectively. both result in a foul for illegal helmet contact