scrimmage kick play

[DrMooreReferee]

K's ball 4th and 10 at their own 12. K is punting. The snap is a bad one and never makes it back to the punter. The ball is almost completely at rest at K's 5 when R55 muffs it in an attempt to secure possession. The muffed ball then ends up in K's endzone, where K15 picks it up and tries to punt. However, R72 blocks the punt and the ball sails out the back of K's endzone.

Ruling??

[mbyron]

Safety.

[DrMooreReferee]

Are you sure?

We had a discussion about this play last night. And it was said that since the force that put the ball into K's EZ was supplied by R, then K didn't have to get the ball out. And even though K did kick the ball, it never came back out of the endzone. Therefore, I have folks in my association who are saying this is actually a touchback and not a safety. I'm just not sure myself.

[mbyron]

If K kicks from the 1 and it's blocked out of the back of the endzone, that's not a safety?

[Brett]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If K kicks from the 1 and it's blocked out of the back of the endzone, that's not a safety?

Under your scenario, you have have no new force and a safety. Under the original scenario, you have a new force and under 8-5-3 (c) I think you have a touch back.

A fumble is the force, or a muff or bat of a backward pass or a fumble after either has touched the ground is the new force, which sends the ball to or across the opponent’s goal line and provided such opponent is in team possession or the ball is out of bounds when it becomes dead on or behind
its goal line.

In the original scenario you have a muff of a grounded fumble and there is no change of possession in the play so A is still in possession when the ball becomes dead behind the goal line.

I haven't given it too much thought, so if I missed something please let me have it.

[ppaltice]

I don't think the answer to this is obvious. It depends on whether the kick makes it back into the field of play. The ball was forced into K's EZ by R and the ball went out of bounds, so by Rule 8-5-3c. That is the force that puts the ball initially into the EZ. But if K kicks the ball and the ball travels back into the field of play (out of the EZ) and subsequently returns to the EZ and goes OOB, then K is responsible for the force that put the ball into the EZ and it is a safety (8-5-2b). If the kick never makes it out of the EZ, it is a touchback.

[mikesears]

Touchback. Force can only cause the ball to travel INTO and endzone from the field of play. In your play, R supplied the force that put the ball into K's endzone. (But it would have to be totally obvious that the ball wasn't going into an endzone for me to rule this).

Once the ball is in the endzone, we can't have a new force (unless it comes back out and then goes back in again). K could throw a backwards pass across the end line while in the end zone and the result would be the same.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

K's ball 4th and 10 at their own 12. K is punting. The snap is a bad one and never makes it back to the punter. The ball is almost completely at rest at K's 5 when R55 muffs it in an attempt to secure possession. The muffed ball then ends up in K's endzone, where K15 picks it up and tries to punt. However, R72 blocks the punt and the ball sails out the back of K's endzone.

Ruling??

CANADIAN RULING:

Team A 1D/10 @ A-20. (to be confirmed)