Taking On A Pack Of Viscous Hyenas

[JRutledge]

ajmc,

It is clear that you are your zebra friend; do not know a thing about the people you are talking about. And what you have told everyone about yourself, you also know very little about professionalism or what it takes to get ahead in this thing we call officiating. It is clear you know nothing about me or what I have done in an officiating uniform. It is clear you know nothing about Kurt or the other people that have criticized him or his words. It is clear you do not know the previous conversations and you have admitted you do not know those things.

Also civility is not about letting people say what they want without being challenged. If I say something that I cannot back up or verify somewhere, people here will challenge me. It still happens from time to time when talking about all kinds of topics. I do not get offended or upset. If that bothers you, this place is not going to be for you. And unlike you I use my real name and tell people where I live and my background. So when I say something it is from a place where people can verify my comments. All you are doing is running your mouth and you have not told us anything about yourself or your real name, but you want to come here and preach to use what should or should not happen here. Not only are you a rookie on the field, you are a rookie on this site.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

ajmc,

It is clear that you are your zebra friend; do not know a thing about the people you are talking about. And what you have told everyone about yourself, you also know very little about professionalism or what it takes to get ahead in this thing we call officiating. It is clear you know nothing about me or what I have done in an officiating uniform. It is clear you know nothing about Kurt or the other people that have criticized him or his words. It is clear you do not know the previous conversations and you have admitted you do not know those things.

Also civility is not about letting people say what they want without being challenged. If I say something that I cannot back up or verify somewhere, people here will challenge me. It still happens from time to time when talking about all kinds of topics. I do not get offended or upset. If that bothers you, this place is not going to be for you. And unlike you I use my real name and tell people where I live and my background. So when I say something it is from a place where people can verify my comments. All you are doing is running your mouth and you have not told us anything about yourself or your real name, but you want to come here and preach to use what should or should not happen here. Not only are you a rookie on the field, you are a rookie on this site.

Peace

Mr. Rutledge, with all due respect I don't really think knowing anything about you, or, "what I (you) have done in an officiating uniform" has anything to do with basic manners, unless of course, you fell entitled to special treatment of some kind. There seems to be a lot of things, really clear to you, that look like pure speculation and don't seem to really matter to the original issue regarding the legality and future of what is referenced as an A-11 offense.

I have not suggested, nor do I believe, there is anything improper about challenging anything you may feel uncomfortable with. I would suggest however, you learn to challenge that with which you disagree a lot more civily, as you may find it makes the points you are struggling to present that much more persuasive and receptive.

Who I am, where I'm from or how long I've been doing what we do is not nearly as relevant as whether or not what I'm suggesting makes basic common sense. That, you have to decide, as it relates to you and your behavior. I've tried to relate in general terms simply that some of what has been offered has grown to be excessive, unnecessarily nasty and childish. If you believe any of those descriptions relates specifically to what you have opined, then you might reevaluate your presentation skills, because that is clearly the way some of this bilge has been presented and is being received.

I will tell you this, I've been wearing a striped shirt a lot longer than you and I've never been embarrassed, or ashamed, because I'm entitled to wear one. The fact is the tone and tenor of some of the comments on this topic are disgraceful and serve as an embarrassment to what we do and who we are. The remedy is simply sticking to the subject matter while abandoning all the unnecessary rehetoric. Much the same as we've been trained to do on the field.

When you can't respond to an issue you disagree with without proping your argument up with speculation about personal motivation, deliberate personal attacks, cheap shots and insults, it might be because your argument needs a little more attention to relevant detail and a good time to reevaluate your presentation.

All I've tried to suggest is that you remember that you are speaking as an official and what you say and how you say it reflects on all of us, and a lot of what's been said does nor reflect well. Barking and growling about the spot left on the rug doesn't do a thing to remove the spot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Mr. Rutledge, with all due respect I don't really think knowing anything about you, or, "what I (you) have done in an officiating uniform" has anything to do with basic manners, unless of course, you fell entitled to special treatment of some kind. There seems to be a lot of things, really clear to you, that look like pure speculation and don't seem to really matter to the original issue regarding the legality and future of what is referenced as an A-11 offense.

I have no idea how you were raised, but there is nothing in manners that I have ever seen that means I (you or the person next door) cannot disagree with the intent, purpose, positions that anyone takes on just about anything. If you do not like my position on this offense or the facts surrounding what the NF has said publicly or not said publicly, then you do not have to read a single thing I say. And if you are going to challenge my professionalism or anyone's professionalism, then you should have a little more than what someone says on a silly little offense that might not be legal in a month or two.

Originally Posted by ajmc

And if you want that information, then you can do a little research and you can find out. I bet just as it relates to football I have the respect of my peers (not on the internet BTW) that you wish you would hae over the course of your football career (if you last that long).

I have not suggested, nor do I believe, there is anything improper about challenging anything you may feel uncomfortable with. I would suggest however, you learn to challenge that with which you disagree a lot more civily, as you may find it makes the points you are struggling to present that much more persuasive and receptive.

Who I am, where I'm from or how long I've been doing what we do is not nearly as relevant as whether or not what I'm suggesting makes basic common sense. That, you have to decide, as it relates to you and your behavior. I've tried to relate in general terms simply that some of what has been offered has grown to be excessive, unnecessarily nasty and childish. If you believe any of those descriptions relates specifically to what you have opined, then you might reevaluate your presentation skills, because that is clearly the way some of this bilge has been presented and is being received.

Sorry, but who you are, where you are from and your standing in your area means EVERYTHING if you are going to sit behind a computer and tell people what they should or should not say or how they should not act. And you keep saying that someone is being childish, but you have not shown one example of such comments. And if you think it is childish to oppose a particular rule, then this is another example of your lack of understanding. We talk all year about plays, rules, situations, the new rules, mechanics, and those conversations get much more heated than what you have seen here. You are right; this place is not for you.

Originally Posted by ajmc

I will tell you this, I've been wearing a striped shirt a lot longer than you and I've never been embarrassed, or ashamed, because I'm entitled to wear one. The fact is the tone and tenor of some of the comments on this topic are disgraceful and serve as an embarrassment to what we do and who we are. The remedy is simply sticking to the subject matter while abandoning all the unnecessary rehetoric. Much the same as we've been trained to do on the field.

OK big guy, how long have you been officiating? How many college games have you worked? How many State Finals have you worked? Better yet, how many officiating boards have you sat on (in leadership roles)? How many state issued positions do you hold? Based on your positions, you have not done anything that signifies you know anything about officiating. Not when you get upset about what someone says on the internet and the reason they find a rule should be changed or how the game should be called under the current rules. How many officiating classes do you teach? Are you the chairperson of any camps or run and camps as an instructor or clinician?

If I recall you said you only had been at this a couple of years, and now you have been officiating 20 years? Sorry, but your credibility is on the line. But as usual you are not man enough to prove you know more than everyone else.

Originally Posted by ajmc

When you can't respond to an issue you disagree with without proping your argument up with speculation about personal motivation, deliberate personal attacks, cheap shots and insults, it might be because your argument needs a little more attention to relevant detail and a good time to reevaluate your presentation.

Personal motivation is very important in any discussion. If you claim you are not doing something for money, and then someone comes up with links that you are selling a product on the very thing you claim you were not doing, that is an important fact. When you keep saying that "your particular" offense is safer, then you post a media article that claims that "spread offenses" are safer and there is not medical study, no social science study or know athletic study to back up those claims, the person making those claims motives are in question. And they are really in question when you are trying to sell something. Then when it was brought to everyone's attention that the NF was looking for opinions on rules changes and wanted to know if "officials" (and probably coaches) feel that the rules on SK should be changed to the college model. I guess the NF was also childish and insulting someone that created an offense taking advantage of a rule. You need to call everyone that disagrees with you, childish.

Originally Posted by ajmc

All I've tried to suggest is that you remember that you are speaking as an official and what you say and how you say it reflects on all of us, and a lot of what's been said does nor reflect well. Barking and growling about the spot left on the rug doesn't do a thing to remove the spot.

I do not need you to tell me anything. I am an official and I have the right and will continue to speak in any of my sports about rules like I do all the time off this site and on this site. According to you we should not ever discuss anything because your feelings will get hurt.

I know I am still talking to a person that is going to preach, but will not have the courage or professionalism to come from behind the keyboard and say who they are or where they are from. As I said before, this is my real name. I have no problem saying these things on here or in public. Not only is what I have said accurate (you have not proven any comment I have said was not true) but shown how it is unprofessional. It is clear you have no idea what the word "professionalism" means. Because if you did, then you would stop talking in circles about how someone said something that hurt someone's feelings.

Peace

[Ed Hickland]

And I still don't like the A-11

[HLin NC]

I'm not but I work with plenty of them and don't know one that would try to tackle an internet discussion board thread. Libel is easy to shout and a helluva lot harder to prove. Besides how do you sue an internet handle? I could be a 15 year old kid behind HLinNC who just happens to know football rules really well. I could be my Dad deciding to have some fun on my son's account- prove otherwise! I might even be my Golden Retriever that is really super smart.

Personally I could care less about the A11 or KurtByran and his own opinion of his offense. I wasn't involved in the Snake Oil thread and am tired of the topic.
Our state has declared it unsportsmanlike so the problem was dealt with. It is evident he's been pushing a product since his appearance on officials message boards. He has chosen to come here. We are no tougher on him than we are our own selves.

A discussion board is for, wait for it........discussion. Since we are defining events, lets define discussion-Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.

[KurtBryan]

Dear Officials:

I appreciate the candor, for or against the offense, but what is MOST IMPORTANT is that respect is maintained at all times.

Like I have said a ZILLION times before, I RESPECT ALL OF YOUR OPINIONS EVEN IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT THAN THOSE OF YOURS TRULY.

Thanks for all you do each and every Game night handling every football game, it is very much appreciated.

KB

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Barking and growling about the spot left on the rug doesn't do a thing to remove the spot.

I have a question. If I say someone is an idiot, does that make me liable for libel?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I have a question. If I say someone is an idiot, does that make me liable for libel?

Not if it's true!

[waltjp]

Zebra, why so hung up on libel? What's your point to all of this? I'm just confused as to why someone would write a tome such as you did.

[TXMike]

It is pretty obvious. The guy is either an alias for KB or someone who is tight with KB that wants to get "credibility" pretending to be a zebra. The poster is a prolific writer. That is a clue.

[zebra295]

Thanks for the compliment TxMike!

Its been a pleasure spending the last 24 hours with all you fine upstanding citizens. Even "KB" made an appearance! As expected this discussion was met with the same tired insults, disbelief that anything written in a public domain could have legal ramifications, complete ignorance of how your actions affect the big picture and of course my favorite: wild speculation about motives and who dunnit!!! On the flip side, compliments to all on doing a marvelous job showing anyone who finds this discussion on Google what pack behavior is all about. All counted, 20 hyenas came in to get a piece of the kill, including one named snausages (I mean snaqwells). Until the next time TXMike, in the next discussion "Lord of the Flies".

[Tim C]

Just to make a small point:

As noted in this thread it is easy to shout "libel" and very difficult to prove.

I doubt the "Zebra" is an attorney (he may of, however, stayed at a Holiday Inn Express for a few nights) as he quoted only the dictionary definition of libel. What he did not include in his work is that libel can only be proven if there is an intentional financial gain or loss.

Courts are very limited in their view of libel.

I would also comment that this thread is a huge entertainment for me.

Regards,

[ajmc]

Rutledge, you're actually funny at times. Perhaps in your environment including "how you were raised", shouting and bullying provides some sense of superiority, in my environment it only provides hollow noise. You keep hiding behind your claim to a right to disagree, which nobody but you has argued with, but seem reluctant to address the manner in which you disagree, which seems very much the tactic of a bully.

Volume doesn't add credibility to what you say, and very often is a clear sign of compensating for lack of credibility. Whether this topic is decided, in a month or two and which way it is decided makes little difference to the basic question on how you chose to deal with it.

If you choose to be a an angry blowhard tossing accusations and personal attacks about, that's entirely up to you. How many State finals, College games, etal you've worked won't change the fact you're still an angry blowhard. It's just not imporatant how long I've been officiating, any more than it matters a tinker's dam how long you've been around. Sometimes 20 years experience boils down to just 2 years worth, 10 times over.

I'm comfortable with my officiating experience, and when you get near to the end of it, that's all that really matters. I've always tried to remember that what I do, how well I do it and, perhaps most importantly, how I conduct myself as an official reflects on a lot of other people as well. I'm sure we're both chasing perfection, however, the difference being when I've done or said something really stupid, I actually try not to repeat myself.

Unlike you, I'm not suggesting, not even hinting I know everything, or more than anyone else. Manners and civility are things you learn by the age of 12, if you don't get it by then, sorry but chances are you won't.

You are absolutely correct when you bark, "I have the right and will continue to speak in any of my sports about rules like I do all the time off this site and on this site", which only suggests that you recognize you are an arrogant blowhard, and like being one. The fact you claim consistency, doesn't add much. I've never intended to suggest anything other than we are what we are, and you have provided a sterling example of how accurate that assessment turned out to be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Rutledge, you're actually funny at times.

AJMC,

If you do not like what I say, there is a way to not see what I say. If you do not like the tone in which I say it, there is a way to not hear that tone. Obviously no one but your little fake azz lawyer friend is on your side. I have also been here quite a longer than you have been.

I am not going to apologize, take back, modify, tone down anything that I have said. I stand by my words on this topic and just about every other topic I choose to talk about. You will just have to be upset for much longer.

I do not work for you, I do not work with you, and you do not live where I live, you do not share my values and honestly I do not care what you think. Actually in the end you are funnier, because you actually believe what you say is going to make a difference. What you need to do is grow some sack and you might just learn something.

Peace

[OverAndBack]