Last Second Scoring

[ljudge]

The defense CAN score on a try in the NCAA. I'm unsure abou tthe NFL. I don't have my rule book handy but I do have my Rogers Redding guide at my side with a rule reference.

Here's what it says along with an example:

"The only time it is not attempted is when a touchdown is scored during the last down of the game and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game (8-3-2a). Here is an example.

Example 9-60: Middle Coast University scores as the game clock expires in the fourth quarter to go ahead of Holy Athlete University by (a) one or two point(s), or (b) by three points.

Ruling:

In (a) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete can score on the try and affect the outcome of the game. In (b), the game is over. The try is not attempted.

Note: The book says "In (a) and (b) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete..." but I realize the "and(b)" piece is an edit mistake.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by ljudge

The defense CAN score on a try in the NCAA. I'm unsure abou tthe NFL. I don't have my rule book handy but I do have my Rogers Redding guide at my side with a rule reference.

Here's what it says along with an example:

"The only time it is not attempted is when a touchdown is scored during the last down of the game and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game (8-3-2a). Here is an example.

Example 9-60: Middle Coast University scores as the game clock expires in the fourth quarter to go ahead of Holy Athlete University by (a) one or two point(s), or (b) by three points.

Ruling:

In (a) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete can score on the try and affect the outcome of the game. In (b), the game is over. The try is not attempted.

Note: The book says "In (a) and (b) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete..." but I realize the "and(b)" piece is an edit mistake.

This seems to be the case. But from the 2005 UM PSU game it isn't the case. Unless the rule is relatively new. Is there a link online to a NCAA rulebook. The only thing I have been able to find is the thing on the NFL.com homepage which only has select rulings.

[aschramm]

NCAA Rulebook:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uplo...d26b95e6c1.pdf

Check out rule 8-3-1, pg FR-108. I think the answer is somewhere in there.

[Forksref]

In the NFL OT is sudden death. Game over on first score.

In NCAA, if I were the team to go ahead on the last play, I'd take a knee on the PAT if, indeed, the play is required to be run. If they require it, it seems like a waste of time.

[PSU213]

This very well could have changed since then, but I recall the Buffalo/New England game several years ago (perhaps 1998?). BUF was up by less than 6. NE drove down the field and was helped by several very 'suspect' calls (including a DPI call on what would have been the game endin Hail Mary by NE). NE scored and BUF was so upset at the manner in which they lost the game, they walked off the field, but NE was required to attempt a try. Since BUF had left the field and would not come back, NE scored an uncontested 2. The reason that NE 'had' to attempt a try is that point differential makes a difference for playoff qualifying/playoff seeding.

Going back even farther is the 1994 Colorado/Michigan game. COL scored on a final play Hail Mary to win by (I believe) 1. After the game the issue was raised of why they did not have to attempt a try since MICH could return it for two. The explaination given then was something to the effect that they (COL) could decline making a try in this situation. Considering this was over 14 years ago, my memory is foggy and I would not be suprised if something has changed with this senario (NCAA rules experts needed here....).

[ajmc]

Outside of specific rules, the basic concept of a "Try" is to reward the scoring team with an opportunity to score an "extra point", because they were successful in scoring.

The scored upon team has earned nothing, and the idea that they are entitled to an opportunity to score themselves as a reward for failing to stop their opponent from scoring, seems odd.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Outside of specific rules, the basic concept of a "Try" is to reward the scoring team with an opportunity to score an "extra point", because they were successful in scoring.

The scored upon team has earned nothing, and the idea that they are entitled to an opportunity to score themselves as a reward for failing to stop their opponent from scoring, seems odd.

Yes, it does, as I explain (among other details) here. Since the late 19th Century in rugby and derivative games, a "try" was instituted that was just as you describe it above, and traditionally the try could be declined. However, now with NCAA and (for at least a time, forgot whether it's still that way) Football Canada and CFL, 2 way scoring has made it such that team A has to go thru the rigmarole of taking a knee under circumstances where previously they could've declined the try.

2-way scoring is a step backward to the time when following an attacking touchdown, the ball was put back fully into play via punt-out instead of there just being the possibility of a try.

Robert

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by PSU213

.....

Going back even farther is the 1994 Colorado/Michigan game. COL scored on a final play Hail Mary to win by (I believe) 1. After the game the issue was raised of why they did not have to attempt a try since MICH could return it for two. The explanation given then was something to the effect that they (COL) could decline making a try in this situation. Considering this was over 14 years ago, my memory is foggy and I would not be surprised if something has changed with this scenario (NCAA rules experts needed here....).

In 1994, the TRY rule read as follows.
8-3-2a. the ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time expires, the winner of the game has been decided and both coaches agree to forgo the try, the period is not extended.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by PSU213

This very well could have changed since then, but I recall the Buffalo/New England game several years ago (perhaps 1998?). BUF was up by less than 6. NE drove down the field and was helped by several very 'suspect' calls (including a DPI call on what would have been the game endin Hail Mary by NE). NE scored and BUF was so upset at the manner in which they lost the game, they walked off the field, but NE was required to attempt a try. Since BUF had left the field and would not come back, NE scored an uncontested 2. The reason that NE 'had' to attempt a try is that point differential makes a difference for playoff qualifying/playoff seeding.

Could have been November 29, 1998 in Foxboro. Drew Bledsoe hit Ben Coates for the winning touchdown with no time left to make it 23-21 and Adam Vinitieri ran for the two-pointer. 25-21 final.

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Could have been November 29, 1998 in Foxboro. Drew Bledsoe hit Ben Coates for the winning touchdown with no time left to make it 23-21 and Adam Vinitieri ran for the two-pointer. 25-21 final.

That would be the game.