Last Second Scoring

[agentorange]

Would be interested to know what the rule on the following situation in the NFL and College is:

Team A is down by 5 points there is 0:01 on the clock. Team A scores a TD to take a 1 point lead as time expires. Does Team A have to attempt the try?

I've seen highlights where a team scores to go up by 1 and rushes off the field but it seems to me like they should have to attempt the try which would give the defense a chance to score (at least in NCAA I believe the play is dead in the NFL if the D gets the ball).

I know that if a team is down by 6 and they score they can attempt the try to tie the game. But are they forced to do so?

Any input would be appreciated.

[ljudge]

In NCAA team A must run the try. It's possible for B to get the ball and score two points which means the try could affect the outcome of the game. If team A went up by two they would still have to run the try as team B could potentially tie the game with a turnover and return for a score.

[BktBallRef]

I don't believe NFL teams are required to attempt a try in such a case.

They don't in OT.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by ljudge

In NCAA team A must run the try. It's possible for B to get the ball and score two points which means the try could affect the outcome of the game. If team A went up by two they would still have to run the try as team B could potentially tie the game with a turnover and return for a score.

Can you tell me what the rule is? Is it a new rule?

ESPN - Penn State Nittany Lions vs. Michigan Wolverines Play-by-Play, October 15 2005 - NCAA College Football

The above link is to the 2005 Michigan PSU game. Michigan down by 4 with 1 seconds left throws a TD pass to go up 27-25. This is the last play of the game. If you look at other scores ESPN calls out the extra point attempts as plays.

I remember watching this game. Michigan scored and the fans rushed the field and the game ended (PSU was undefeated #6 at the time). They did not kick the extra point.

At the time I didn't think anything of it but after seeing a few more games where this happened me and a friend started talking about the rule and want to try and get it answered.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't believe NFL teams are required to attempt a try in such a case.

They don't in OT.

I understand in NFL OT because if you score a TD you go up by 6 and even if the defense could score they would still lose the game.

In college the defense can score a 2 point play on a point after try. So if the 6 points from the TD causes the defending team to be down by 2 or less they would want the attempt to be tried cause they could score to tie or win.

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by agentorange

I understand in NFL OT because if you score a TD you go up by 6 and even if the defense could score they would still lose the game.

BUt the defense can't score on a try.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

BUt the defense can't score on a try.

"I understand in NFL OT because if you score a TD you go up by 6 and even if the defense could score they would still lose the game."

I understand this. I was simply pointing out that IF the defense could score it wouldn't change the winner of the game only the final score. So there is no reason to kick it in NFL overtime.

The question stands. If a team scores as time expires in a NFL or NCAA game do they have to attempt the PAT.

[ljudge]

The defense CAN score on a try in the NCAA. I'm unsure abou tthe NFL. I don't have my rule book handy but I do have my Rogers Redding guide at my side with a rule reference.

Here's what it says along with an example:

"The only time it is not attempted is when a touchdown is scored during the last down of the game and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game (8-3-2a). Here is an example.

Example 9-60: Middle Coast University scores as the game clock expires in the fourth quarter to go ahead of Holy Athlete University by (a) one or two point(s), or (b) by three points.

Ruling:

In (a) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete can score on the try and affect the outcome of the game. In (b), the game is over. The try is not attempted.

Note: The book says "In (a) and (b) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete..." but I realize the "and(b)" piece is an edit mistake.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I don't believe NFL teams are required to attempt a try in such a case.

They don't in OT.

Wasn't it a Pittsburgh game a couple of weeks back when they called the teams back on the field for the try? I guess it makes sense if the NFL is using PF and PA for tie breakers.

In HS the try isn't attempted if the game is already decided - unless it has bearings on the playoffs.

NCAA - ???

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by ljudge

The defense CAN score on a try in the NCAA. I'm unsure abou tthe NFL. I don't have my rule book handy but I do have my Rogers Redding guide at my side with a rule reference.

Here's what it says along with an example:

"The only time it is not attempted is when a touchdown is scored during the last down of the game and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game (8-3-2a). Here is an example.

Example 9-60: Middle Coast University scores as the game clock expires in the fourth quarter to go ahead of Holy Athlete University by (a) one or two point(s), or (b) by three points.

Ruling:

In (a) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete can score on the try and affect the outcome of the game. In (b), the game is over. The try is not attempted.

Note: The book says "In (a) and (b) the try must be attempted as Holy Athlete..." but I realize the "and(b)" piece is an edit mistake.

This seems to be the case. But from the 2005 UM PSU game it isn't the case. Unless the rule is relatively new. Is there a link online to a NCAA rulebook. The only thing I have been able to find is the thing on the NFL.com homepage which only has select rulings.

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by agentorange

Can you tell me what the rule is? Is it a new rule?

ESPN - Penn State Nittany Lions vs. Michigan Wolverines Play-by-Play, October 15 2005 - NCAA College Football

The above link is to the 2005 Michigan PSU game. Michigan down by 4 with 1 seconds left throws a TD pass to go up 27-25. This is the last play of the game. If you look at other scores ESPN calls out the extra point attempts as plays.

I remember watching this game. Michigan scored and the fans rushed the field and the game ended (PSU was undefeated #6 at the time). They did not kick the extra point.

At the time I didn't think anything of it but after seeing a few more games where this happened me and a friend started talking about the rule and want to try and get it answered.

Back in 2005, the TRY rule was that a TRY down is mandatory unless the team behind in the score leaves the field. I'll bet that Coach Paterno figured there was no way the field could be cleared in any reasonable period of time and that UM would probably just snap it and down it immediately, so why bother with the down.

As mentioned, that rule has since been changed.

[aschramm]

NCAA Rulebook:

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uplo...d26b95e6c1.pdf

Check out rule 8-3-1, pg FR-108. I think the answer is somewhere in there.

[Forksref]

In the NFL OT is sudden death. Game over on first score.

In NCAA, if I were the team to go ahead on the last play, I'd take a knee on the PAT if, indeed, the play is required to be run. If they require it, it seems like a waste of time.

[PSU213]

This very well could have changed since then, but I recall the Buffalo/New England game several years ago (perhaps 1998?). BUF was up by less than 6. NE drove down the field and was helped by several very 'suspect' calls (including a DPI call on what would have been the game endin Hail Mary by NE). NE scored and BUF was so upset at the manner in which they lost the game, they walked off the field, but NE was required to attempt a try. Since BUF had left the field and would not come back, NE scored an uncontested 2. The reason that NE 'had' to attempt a try is that point differential makes a difference for playoff qualifying/playoff seeding.

Going back even farther is the 1994 Colorado/Michigan game. COL scored on a final play Hail Mary to win by (I believe) 1. After the game the issue was raised of why they did not have to attempt a try since MICH could return it for two. The explaination given then was something to the effect that they (COL) could decline making a try in this situation. Considering this was over 14 years ago, my memory is foggy and I would not be suprised if something has changed with this senario (NCAA rules experts needed here....).

[ajmc]

Outside of specific rules, the basic concept of a "Try" is to reward the scoring team with an opportunity to score an "extra point", because they were successful in scoring.

The scored upon team has earned nothing, and the idea that they are entitled to an opportunity to score themselves as a reward for failing to stop their opponent from scoring, seems odd.