Is It Time for Replays at the High School Level?

[Forksref]

We can't even get quality video now from the schools. Anyone who really believes this can happen is smoking something.

As mentioned above, the best thing is to develop officials better. More clinics and more quality video training as well as mentoring and evaluation would be great.

The costs of IR are crazy. How many schools will pay for the equipment? How many are going to pay multiple persons to do quality video work during a game? How about the delays involved? Remember, this IS high school. Let's keep it in perspective.

And I respectfully disagree that the purpose of IR is to "incrementally" improve officiating. I've already listed steps that should be taken to do that. IR won't make us better officials. Improved training will.

If you think people are law-suit crazy now, just see what IR would do for them.

Currently, the best protection we have is a state and national association that says that NO protests will be allowed.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Forksref

And I respectfully disagree that the purpose of IR is to "incrementally" improve officiating. I've already listed steps that should be taken to do that. IR won't make us better officials. Improved training will.

The argument is that IR will help get the call right in a few more cases, not that it will make officials better. Improved training will also reduce the number of mistakes by officials. But you can't argue against IR by suggesting an additional means to the same end, unless you can argue that the two are incompatible.

[ajmc]

Woah, it's not about the cost nor about the level of available technology, or at least shouln't be. This is a GAME that is over 125 years old and is still growing in popularity. It ain't broke, and doesn't need fixing.

Nintendo and Playstation are addressing the needs of those who want to participate in the action from the comfort of their favorite easy chair. There is NO perfection in (real) football.

Strategies are only effective until someone smarter figures out a way to defend against them, plays are successful only when multiple players execute properly close enough to each other to add to each other's performance. The ball, itself, is designed to bounce inconsistently. Players rise, or fall, to levels of performance that surprise even themselves. Much of the game's allure and popularity is a direct result of it's inconsistency and unpredictability. It's about rising to challenge knowing someone has to fail.

Enjoy the game, with all it's twists and turns, which only add to the excitement. Football is a "game of inches" and not a game of inches at the same time. Every succeeding spot is nothing more than the best guess of a human being trained to recognize and determine best guesses. There are no lasers, no gps designations no precision technologies used to insure absolute accuracy. Isn't every 1st down that's made, or missed by an inch just as dependent on where the previous spot was as where the ball was marked down?

The idiots and loudmouths everpresent at all football games need to be better ignored and shunned, not encouraged and celebrated which is exactly what IR would bring to the HS game.

Just think for a moment about all the Cecil B. DeMills with cameras at the average youth football games, imagine what accepting video replays would do to that environment.

[GPC2]

Originally Posted by Forksref

As mentioned above, the best thing is to develop officials better. More clinics and more quality video training as well as mentoring and evaluation would be great.......................... IR won't make us better officials. Improved training will.

AMEN BROTHER!! The only way to improve officiating is to improve officials. The only way to improve officials is to improve (and in some cases implement) training. TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING.

I have never been a fan of Instant Replay at any level. Based on my non-scientific observations, most of IR calls that are totally cut-and-dry, the vast majority of them are close as c*nt hair. To stop a game for 10 extra minutes because an official may or may not have missed something by a fraction of a milisecond is ridiculous. The High School game certainly doesn't need to be poisoned with the evils of the college and pro game.

Furthermore, if you have a bad Referee reviewing a bad camera angle to determine if a bad call was missed - what the hell do you end up with?

[With_Two_Flakes]

Here's a point that no-one seems to have really made yet. Having instant replay at a game affects the way you call the game.

Your philosophy changes in several areas with IR. If you don't believe me, ask any NCAA guy in your association who works IR games about it. If you have IR:- then a fumble/no fumble, you will favour fumble and keep off the whistle, IR can always say the kid was down and overrule you. If you have catch/no catch, you stay off the whistle as IR can always overrule it to be an incomplete, etc, etc.

These things are in direct opposition to your normal officiating philosophy of "if in doubt, it's XXXXX". If all the schools you work in your city have IR of sufficient standard then OK, you can probably do it. But if they do not, your philosophy will be changing from one Friday to another and you will likely screw up.

As for what constitutes a sufficient standard of camera coverage for IR, I'd suggest a absolute minimum of 4 cameras, one on each sideline, one behind each endzone. All would need to be at a decent elevation. Personally I think there is no place for it in HS football. Has IR even reached down to Div II or Div III college yet?

[Ed Hickland]

BTW. I'm totally against it but we know every school records their games, then there is Dad in the stands with his pocket camcorder and the insidious newspapers willing to sacrifice for a few readers by taking the video and exorcising it as the "unbiased" judge of officiating. Oh, don't forget YouTube where it can be posted for the entire world to view.

While the technology exists the cost to do it right is tremendous. Juggling said $2,000 and that is for a single camera. How many times have you seen the NFL replays require multiple cameras simply because different angles give different views? I say more like $8,000 to $10,000 for a truly functional replay system, plus, camera operators and replay official and then you need to aggregate and synchronize the different replays that is probably an additional $5,000. Maybe $15,000 - $20,000 for the system plus game labor.

Lets say we set up that system for a single game and you don't get one call for replay. Is it worth it?

The better answer is take that money and put it into training and realize officials are human and will make mistakes.

We cannot setup rules to prevent the video revolution from taking over officiating but NFHS, state and local associations need to be proactive in adopting the technology to make our experience on the field better.

[HossHumard]

Lord no!

Unless you're one of the major US networks with 20 HD cameras and twice as many PA's, 99.9% of the time the BEST view of any play is from the official on the field.

If I had a (US) dollar for every time I've said, "Coach, you would not believe how different a play can look from 3 yards away where I'm standing as opposed to the 35 yards away where you're standing"....I could retire and buy that swamp land in FLA I've been dreaming of.

Players execute correctly 50% of the time, coaches less, fans.....don't get me started.

Officials get it right 95%+...why are we even talking about such a scenario?

[OverAndBack]

I think they have used instant replay in high school hockey in Minnesota. Am I remembering that correctly?

This would be a big advantage for schools who could afford it, which might exacerbate the haves vs have nots thing.

I'm all for improving officiating. Training, video study, area meetings, discussion boards like this - they're all tools for helping us get better. So in theory, you could make the case.

I just see way too many problems with the actual implementation. Like Hoss said - we've often got the best view. Not always. And sometimes we still screw it up.

But if y'all want to get either RefBot 3000s out there or make us retire at the age of 30 when our eyesight isn't as sharp, knock yourself out. I know I'm doing the best I can, and high school football isn't supposed to be the NFL.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by HossHumard

Lord no!

Unless you're one of the major US networks with 20 HD cameras and twice as many PA's, 99.9% of the time the BEST view of any play is from the official on the field.

If I had a (US) dollar for every time I've said, "Coach, you would not believe how different a play can look from 3 yards away where I'm standing as opposed to the 35 yards away where you're standing"....I could retire and buy that swamp land in FLA I've been dreaming of.

Players execute correctly 50% of the time, coaches less, fans.....don't get me started.

Officials get it right 95%+...why are we even talking about such a scenario?

Simple. We are starting to see game videos show up on mainly on newspaper sites and YouTube in super slow motion "proving" the officials were wrong and hoping to convince even at the cost of going to court the decision should be overturned.

Think this discussion proves it impractical, of course, that will not stop the proponents who most likely have never officiated a football game.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by GPC2

AMEN BROTHER!! The only way to improve officiating is to improve officials. The only way to improve officials is to improve (and in some cases implement) training. TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING.

I have never been a fan of Instant Replay at any level. Based on my non-scientific observations, most of IR calls that are totally cut-and-dry, the vast majority of them are close as c*nt hair. To stop a game for 10 extra minutes because an official may or may not have missed something by a fraction of a milisecond is ridiculous. The High School game certainly doesn't need to be poisoned with the evils of the college and pro game.

Furthermore, if you have a bad Referee reviewing a bad camera angle to determine if a bad call was missed - what the hell do you end up with?

I was going to echo your sentiments, but then you dredged to vulgarity.

[FredFan7]

Heavens no.

The state football finals were all televised and you should have seen some of the shoddy camera work....

[JRutledge]

No it is not.

There is no way we would get consistent application across the country, let alone state or area. Not all games are on TV and there would take a lot of money and training to get a little consistency or to get angles. You need more than one press box angle to get plays right. It would be a waste of time if implemented.

Peace

[GPC2]

Originally Posted by ODJ

I was going to echo your sentiments, but then you dredged to vulgarity.

Sorry man, I guess I got a little too worked up.

Originally Posted by ajmc

...This is a GAME that is over 125 years old and is still growing in popularity. It ain't broke, and doesn't need fixing.

Nintendo and Playstation are addressing the needs of those who want to participate in the action from the comfort of their favorite easy chair. There is NO perfection in (real) football.

Strategies are only effective until someone smarter figures out a way to defend against them, plays are successful only when multiple players execute properly close enough to each other to add to each other's performance. The ball, itself, is designed to bounce inconsistently. Players rise, or fall, to levels of performance that surprise even themselves. Much of the game's allure and popularity is a direct result of it's inconsistency and unpredictability. It's about rising to challenge knowing someone has to fail.

Enjoy the game, with all it's twists and turns, which only add to the excitement. Football is a "game of inches" and not a game of inches at the same time. Every succeeding spot is nothing more than the best guess of a human being trained to recognize and determine best guesses. There are no lasers, no gps designations no precision technologies used to insure absolute accuracy. Isn't every 1st down that's made, or missed by an inch just as dependent on where the previous spot was as where the ball was marked down?

The idiots and loudmouths everpresent at all football games need to be better ignored and shunned, not encouraged and celebrated which is exactly what IR would bring to the HS game...

Very, very well said....

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by ajmc

...

The idiots and loudmouths everpresent at all football games need to be better ignored and shunned, not encouraged and celebrated which is exactly what IR would bring to the HS game.

...

They are at your game too!