Game Clock Rule

[SCFLDad]

Yes, that's my question. The 2008 NCAA rules (3-2-5a) states that "When the clock has been stopped for any of the following incidents, it will start on the signal by the referee [S2]", which indicates that it will only start after the "start clock" or wind signal. I assume that it will not start if the ref only gives the "ready-for-play" [S1] signal.

The 2008 UIL/HS rules for high school make an exception to this rule by reverting to the 2005 NCAA rules which (3-2-5b) states: "If the clock was stopped for incidents 1 through 11, it shall be started on the ready-for-play signal". I assume that this means it will start for a "ready-to-play" [S1] signal, regardless if the ref gives the "start clock" or wind signal [S2].

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

Yes, that's my question. The 2008 NCAA rules (3-2-5a) states that "When the clock has been stopped for any of the following incidents, it will start on the signal by the referee [S2]", which indicates that it will only start after the "start clock" or wind signal. I assume that it will not start if the ref only gives the "ready-for-play" [S1] signal.

The 2008 UIL/HS rules for high school make an exception to this rule by reverting to the 2005 NCAA rules which (3-2-5b) states: "If the clock was stopped for incidents 1 through 11, it shall be started on the ready-for-play signal". I assume that this means it will start for a "ready-to-play" [S1] signal, regardless if the ref gives the "start clock" or wind signal [S2].

I see this as a difference in semantics. The clock either starts on the snap or when declared ready by the referee, regardless of the signal(s) he uses. I like the wording in the NCAA rule better, but I understand the UIL/HS rule means the same, even if it does not say it the same way. If a HS referee omits S1 and only gives S2, the clock operator better flip the switch!!!

Our clock operators are officials. Some of them are newbies, just starting out, and some are oldies, either on the down side of their career or not good on-field officials. When I am fortunate to have an oldie, I know the clock will correctly run or not, regardless of my signal(s). If I incorrectly wind it (S1 and S2) when it should start on the snap, an oldie will ignore me. If I forget to wind it (S1 only) when it should start on the ready, he will cover me there also. I have to be more careful with the newbies.

Either way, the entire crew should be aware of the status and be sure it is running when it should be and is not running when it should not be.

[SCFLDad]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I see this as a difference in semantics. The clock either starts on the snap or when declared ready by the referee, regardless of the signal(s) he uses. I like the wording in the NCAA rule better, but I understand the UIL/HS rule means the same, even if it does not say it the same way...

(FYI, my interest in clarification is for our little league play which follows NCAA and UIL for Texas. Our players dads run the clock, not an official.)

First, the 2008 NCAA book very clearly includes "[S2]" in rule (3-2-5a). There should be no confusion in my opinion since they are two distinctly different (S1 and S2) signals. My instinct tells me that ready for play means that the neutral zone has been established and the offense has a limited amount of time to put the ball in play - both teams to respect the neutral zone until the ball is in play. Winding the clock simply means "start the clock".

Second, it is not a UIL rule per se, but UIL makes an exception to the 2008 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing and instead uses the 2005 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing. These are both NCAA rules. Why would NCAA change the rule to say use [S2] (in 2008) from saying start with ready-to-play (in 2005) if they mean the same thing? It seems that ready-for-play doesn't always mean start the GAME clock, but according to the 2005 NCAA rule, it may.

Under UIL in Texas, if the game clock and the play clock are to both start at the same time, then the only signal we are to give is the "winding" signal and both the play clock and game clock will start on that signal.

Our refs normally only give the ready-for-play signal after a first down (for example) and don't always give us the wind signal. This is why its confusing. (The refs have the play clock, so we are only concerned with the game clock.)

[Welpe]

The Referee needs to give the ready for play (RFP) before every down. If the game clock is to start with the RFP, he will give the winding signal along with the whistle. Otherwise, if the game clock is not to start on the RFP, he should give the chop signal while whistling.

[SCFLDad]

If the game clock is to start with the RFP, he will give the winding signal along with the whistle.

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

Sorry - misread the question. Ignore my first answer.

That answer will depend on the referee. Some referees will say they are the only individual with the authority to start the clock on the ready. If they miss it, they miss it. Some referees know the crew suceeds or fails as a whole and will allow any crew member to wind the clock. I have not kept a clock in almost 30 years, but if I do, I will see what the referee wants done.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

I did not think the pump was used in Texas high school football...are you referring to the chop (Signal 1)?

If the referee chops instead of winds, then someone needs to catch it. I've never ran into that issue before though. I would suggest that whomever is running the clock to go over this quickly with the officials pre-game to ensure everybody is on the same page.

[SCFLDad]

Yes, I mean chop (signal 1).

Excellent (and of course logical) answer guys. Thanks, and we will make it standard practice to review with the officials before each game.

[Robert Goodman]

[QUOTE=SCFLDad;551816]Second, it is not a UIL rule per se, but UIL makes an exception to the 2008 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing and instead uses the 2005 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing. These are both NCAA rules.
If NCAA doesn't current play by it but UIL (whoever they are) does, then it's not a current NCAA rule and is a current UIL rule. If you want to call something a NCAA rule because they were the first to write it down, then you have Fed & NFL playing a lot of NCAA rules! (But much of the language predates NCAA and a little, even its predecessor organiz'n.)

Robert

[Theisey]

Your league would have clock problems if you did follow NCAA 2008 rules because there isn't a RFP on every down. Now that the 40/25 play clock in in use, an actual RFP signal is used far, far less then in 2007.

[SCFLDad]

Your league would have clock problems if you did follow NCAA 2008 rules because there isn't a RFP on every down. Now that the 40/25 play clock in in use, an actual RFP signal is used far, far less then in 2007.

This has to do with the officials and how they officiate the games (can they follow the rules - how are the rules interpreted). The officials used are directed under the guidelines of the UIL rules (which incorporate the NCAA rules.) If they don't give proper signals, the clock timing can be affected, which can make a difference in the outcome of games. An example was a recent game with scoring from both teams within the last 10 seconds of the game. Clock errors could have easily prevented the final score to win the game.

For those who don't know, UIL (University Interscholastic League) was created by The University of Texas at Austin to provide leadership and guidance to public school debate and athletic teachers. Since 1909 the UIL has grown into the largest inter-school organization of its kind in the world. They provide football rules for state public schools in Texas. Our little league incorporates the UIL and NCAA rules.

As stated before, the UIL rules for timing uses the 2005 NCAA rules instead of the 2008 rules (I expect to keep away from the more complicated 40/25 play clock). It's still NCAA rules (whether they are superseded or not). There must have been some intention of writing the rules the way they are written. Just checking if anyone might know how they are to be interpreted (without having to conference with the refs before each game).

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

This has to do with the officials and how they officiate the games (can they follow the rules - how are the rules interpreted). The officials used are directed under the guidelines of the UIL rules (which incorporate the NCAA rules.) If they don't give proper signals, the clock timing can be affected, which can make a difference in the outcome of games. An example was a recent game with scoring from both teams within the last 10 seconds of the game. Clock errors could have easily prevented the final score to win the game.

For those who don't know, UIL (University Interscholastic League) was created by The University of Texas at Austin to provide leadership and guidance to public school debate and athletic teachers. Since 1909 the UIL has grown into the largest inter-school organization of its kind in the world. They provide football rules for state public schools in Texas. Our little league incorporates the UIL and NCAA rules.

As stated before, the UIL rules for timing uses the 2005 NCAA rules instead of the 2008 rules (I expect to keep away from the more complicated 40/25 play clock). It's still NCAA rules (whether they are superseded or not). There must have been some intention of writing the rules the way they are written. Just checking if anyone might know how they are to be interpreted (without having to conference with the refs before each game).

If the officials don't signal the clock to start when it is supposed to then go with starting it on the snap. It's never a good thing for the clock operators to take it upon themselves to start or stop the clock even if they may be right. It's the officials job to "run" the clock, the operator is there just to push the button when directed to. As far as the conference. The clock operators are supposed to meet with the officials before the game.