Game Clock Rule

[SCFLDad]

2008 NCAA

1. Does the game clock ever start with the ready-for-play signal [S1] from the ref?

2. Rule 3-2-5 indicates that the game clock does not start until a legal snap or ref signal [S2] following various incidents, such as first down as a result of play. Is there any reason a ref would not give the clock wind signal [S2] before the snap? Does he have to give the ready-for-play signal [S1] and the clock wind signal [S2] for these incidents?

3. Is this the same for UIL/HS rules?

[Blue37]

Let me rephrase your question to see if I understand it.

If the clock is stopped by the officials to attend to an administrative task such as administering a penalty or moving the chains on a first down, does it start when the referee gives the ready-for-play signal or does he also have to give the start-clock signal before the clock starts?

If that is your question, I would answer this way. A good crew will let the clock operator know the status of the ball and he will start the clock on the referee's first movement. (edited to add: assuming the clock operator is on the sideline. If he is in the box, there is no way to tell him other than the signal(s).)

You also asked about the necessity of giving both signals. Some referees give both and some only give the start-clock. I give both because that is what my assignors want me to do.

[Sonofanump]

Actually, I think the game clock is started more often on the ready than the play clock now since we wind outside 2 minutes for out of bounds plays.

[ajmc]

think sometime we might forget that the purpose of any signal is to convey a message to someone who can't hear what we say. The Referee declares evety down RFP to alert everyone that play is about to start.

Most Referees offer 3 different signals to do so; a basic RFP signal to identify that the ball is ready when the clock is already running, an added "Wind" signal when the clock has been stopped and will start again at the RFP and some variation of the basic signal when the clock is stopped and will not start again until the actual snap.

All 3 signals are initially intended to send different messages to the other field officials, including whoever is running the official clock (either on the field or in the booth). These signals also have value, and are paid attention to, by coaches, announcers and smart players.

Of course each of the field officials, as well as the clock operator, should be well aware of the game situation and whether or not it dictates when the clock be started, but the Referee's signalling coordinates that action and serves as confirmation that everyone, who needs to understand precisely, when the clock starts and stops receives the same message at the same moment.

Some argue that multiple signals create redundancy, which although often technically correct, seem more concerned with sacrificing an added level of accuracy for some sense of brevity that offers no benefit whatsoever.

[SCFLDad]

Yes, that's my question. The 2008 NCAA rules (3-2-5a) states that "When the clock has been stopped for any of the following incidents, it will start on the signal by the referee [S2]", which indicates that it will only start after the "start clock" or wind signal. I assume that it will not start if the ref only gives the "ready-for-play" [S1] signal.

The 2008 UIL/HS rules for high school make an exception to this rule by reverting to the 2005 NCAA rules which (3-2-5b) states: "If the clock was stopped for incidents 1 through 11, it shall be started on the ready-for-play signal". I assume that this means it will start for a "ready-to-play" [S1] signal, regardless if the ref gives the "start clock" or wind signal [S2].

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

Yes, that's my question. The 2008 NCAA rules (3-2-5a) states that "When the clock has been stopped for any of the following incidents, it will start on the signal by the referee [S2]", which indicates that it will only start after the "start clock" or wind signal. I assume that it will not start if the ref only gives the "ready-for-play" [S1] signal.

The 2008 UIL/HS rules for high school make an exception to this rule by reverting to the 2005 NCAA rules which (3-2-5b) states: "If the clock was stopped for incidents 1 through 11, it shall be started on the ready-for-play signal". I assume that this means it will start for a "ready-to-play" [S1] signal, regardless if the ref gives the "start clock" or wind signal [S2].

I see this as a difference in semantics. The clock either starts on the snap or when declared ready by the referee, regardless of the signal(s) he uses. I like the wording in the NCAA rule better, but I understand the UIL/HS rule means the same, even if it does not say it the same way. If a HS referee omits S1 and only gives S2, the clock operator better flip the switch!!!

Our clock operators are officials. Some of them are newbies, just starting out, and some are oldies, either on the down side of their career or not good on-field officials. When I am fortunate to have an oldie, I know the clock will correctly run or not, regardless of my signal(s). If I incorrectly wind it (S1 and S2) when it should start on the snap, an oldie will ignore me. If I forget to wind it (S1 only) when it should start on the ready, he will cover me there also. I have to be more careful with the newbies.

Either way, the entire crew should be aware of the status and be sure it is running when it should be and is not running when it should not be.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Some argue that multiple signals create redundancy, which although often technically correct, seem more concerned with sacrificing an added level of accuracy for some sense of brevity that offers no benefit whatsoever.

Yeah, what's wrong with redundancy in communication? What's wrong with a little redundancy in communication?

But, to improve synchroniz'n, would you give the ready signal with one arm while giving the wind with the other?

Robert

[JasonTX]

Under UIL in Texas, if the game clock and the play clock are to both start at the same time, then the only signal we are to give is the "winding" signal and both the play clock and game clock will start on that signal.

[SCFLDad]

Originally Posted by Blue37

I see this as a difference in semantics. The clock either starts on the snap or when declared ready by the referee, regardless of the signal(s) he uses. I like the wording in the NCAA rule better, but I understand the UIL/HS rule means the same, even if it does not say it the same way...

(FYI, my interest in clarification is for our little league play which follows NCAA and UIL for Texas. Our players dads run the clock, not an official.)

First, the 2008 NCAA book very clearly includes "[S2]" in rule (3-2-5a). There should be no confusion in my opinion since they are two distinctly different (S1 and S2) signals. My instinct tells me that ready for play means that the neutral zone has been established and the offense has a limited amount of time to put the ball in play - both teams to respect the neutral zone until the ball is in play. Winding the clock simply means "start the clock".

Second, it is not a UIL rule per se, but UIL makes an exception to the 2008 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing and instead uses the 2005 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing. These are both NCAA rules. Why would NCAA change the rule to say use [S2] (in 2008) from saying start with ready-to-play (in 2005) if they mean the same thing? It seems that ready-for-play doesn't always mean start the GAME clock, but according to the 2005 NCAA rule, it may.

Under UIL in Texas, if the game clock and the play clock are to both start at the same time, then the only signal we are to give is the "winding" signal and both the play clock and game clock will start on that signal.

Our refs normally only give the ready-for-play signal after a first down (for example) and don't always give us the wind signal. This is why its confusing. (The refs have the play clock, so we are only concerned with the game clock.)

[Welpe]

The Referee needs to give the ready for play (RFP) before every down. If the game clock is to start with the RFP, he will give the winding signal along with the whistle. Otherwise, if the game clock is not to start on the RFP, he should give the chop signal while whistling.

[SCFLDad]

If the game clock is to start with the RFP, he will give the winding signal along with the whistle.

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

Sorry - misread the question. Ignore my first answer.

That answer will depend on the referee. Some referees will say they are the only individual with the authority to start the clock on the ready. If they miss it, they miss it. Some referees know the crew suceeds or fails as a whole and will allow any crew member to wind the clock. I have not kept a clock in almost 30 years, but if I do, I will see what the referee wants done.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by SCFLDad

The rule is "start the clock on RFP". What if the ref only gives the pump signal and not the winding signal? Start the clock on not?

I did not think the pump was used in Texas high school football...are you referring to the chop (Signal 1)?

If the referee chops instead of winds, then someone needs to catch it. I've never ran into that issue before though. I would suggest that whomever is running the clock to go over this quickly with the officials pre-game to ensure everybody is on the same page.

[SCFLDad]

Yes, I mean chop (signal 1).

Excellent (and of course logical) answer guys. Thanks, and we will make it standard practice to review with the officials before each game.

[Robert Goodman]

[QUOTE=SCFLDad;551816]Second, it is not a UIL rule per se, but UIL makes an exception to the 2008 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing and instead uses the 2005 NCAA rule (3-2) for timing. These are both NCAA rules.
If NCAA doesn't current play by it but UIL (whoever they are) does, then it's not a current NCAA rule and is a current UIL rule. If you want to call something a NCAA rule because they were the first to write it down, then you have Fed & NFL playing a lot of NCAA rules! (But much of the language predates NCAA and a little, even its predecessor organiz'n.)

Robert