LSU - Florida Punt Return

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

APG is right. This was a kickoff. This is a rule I always thought was a little strange but the crew got it right. The ball became dead when R touched it with their foot out of bounds. Since touching preceeds possession, R technically never possessed it. The kick was out of bounds so the normal options apply (5 yards re-kick, 40 yard line, or spot where ball went out of bounds). They took the 40.

My favorite part of this was the announcer actually knew the rule and explained it very well!! After the official announced the ruling was confirmed, the Florida fans started booing. The announcer said, "Do you hear 90,000 fans booing? That's because they don't know the rule." That announcer is my new hero!!

It looked to me like at the time that he caught it, he had one foot down, and the foot that landed out of bounds was in the air at the time of the catch. Is this not treated the same way as a catch on a pass?

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by Fan10

It looked to me like at the time that he caught it, he had one foot down, and the foot that landed out of bounds was in the air at the time of the catch. Is this not treated the same way as a catch on a pass?

This is exactly what happened. I am pretty sure in the NFL, that the ball is spotted where it goes out in that case. But I guess the NCAA rule is different?

There was a separate play where LSU kicked off and was penalized for delay of game and had to re-kick. Their kicker booted the ball before the RFP. The announcers were clueless on that one, too.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

This is exactly what happened. I am pretty sure in the NFL, that the ball is spotted where it goes out in that case. But I guess the NCAA rule is different?

There was a separate play where LSU kicked off and was penalized for delay of game and had to re-kick. Their kicker booted the ball before the RFP. The announcers were clueless on that one, too.

Are you sure the officials ruled this way though? I thought it looked like that too but it was very close. Based on the explanation I heard (I turned it on just as the R was announcing the rule was upheld), the runner caught the ball while standing out of bounds. I believe if he caught it with one foot in and then stepped out, the ball would be dead at that spot for the receiving team. I missed the play live though so I may not have all the details right.

[inigo montoya]

It seemed clear to me that the runner had one foot in bounds and one clearly foot in the air, caught the ball, then the 2nd foot came down on the boundary line. It was close in realtime but on replay it didn't seem that close. The guys in the booth made a comment that it was because his momentum carried him out of bounds and he didn't make a football move up field. I am pretty confident that I have seen this exactly play called down at the spot where the ball was caught in the NFL.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

I am pretty confident that I have seen this exactly play called down at the spot where the ball was caught in the NFL.

That may be true, but also keep in mind that the NFL and NCAA have hundreds of differences in the rules. I can't verify the NFL rule nor can I comment on this play since I didn't see it. Here is a play situation from the NCAA rules.

IV. Airborne B17 has leaped from inbounds and is the first player to
touch Team A’s free kick when he receives the ball. He subsequently
lands out of bounds with the ball in his possession. RULING: Foul,
free kick out of bounds. Team B has these options: it may accept a
five-yard penalty at the previous spot with Team A re-kicking; snap
the ball at its 40-yard line at the inbounds spot (assuming the free
kick was from the 30-yard line); or snap the ball at the inbounds spot
five yards from where the ball crossed the sideline.

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

That may be true, but also keep in mind that the NFL and NCAA have hundreds of differences in the rules. I can't verify the NFL rule nor can I comment on this play since I didn't see it. Here is a play situation from the NCAA rules.

IV. Airborne B17 has leaped from inbounds and is the first player to
touch Team A’s free kick when he receives the ball. He subsequently
lands out of bounds with the ball in his possession. RULING: Foul,
free kick out of bounds. Team B has these options: it may accept a
five-yard penalty at the previous spot with Team A re-kicking; snap
the ball at its 40-yard line at the inbounds spot (assuming the free
kick was from the 30-yard line); or snap the ball at the inbounds spot
five yards from where the ball crossed the sideline.

Thanks. I know there are a lot of differences and that's why I was asking if the rule was different. As far as football, I am an observer only - but as a basketball official I do give an awful lot of the benefit of the doubt to officials calling any sport. I couldn't buy the broadcasters' argument that the returner in this case may have been out of bounds when he caught it because I thought even on my standard def TV that it the sequence was clear he had one foot in bounds, then his 2nd foot came down out of bounds. Based on the quoted rule, it sounds like the right call was made.

[GPC2]

Is the NFHS ruling the same as the NCAA ruling on this type of play? Unfortunately, I don't have my rule book and case book with me.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

There was a separate play where LSU kicked off and was penalized for delay of game and had to re-kick. Their kicker booted the ball before the RFP.

How does that happen? Why is the ball being made available to K before RFP?

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

How does that happen? Why is the ball being made available to K before RFP?

The ball is always given to the kicker before it is ready for play. The ready for play isn't given until all officials are in position and raise their hands indicating so. The kicker must have kicked it before the Referee made the ball ready for play. One of the last things the B will tell the kicker is to not kick it until the Referee sounds his whistle.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

The ball is always given to the kicker before it is ready for play. The ready for play isn't given until all officials are in position and raise their hands indicating so. The kicker must have kicked it before the Referee made the ball ready for play. One of the last things the B will tell the kicker is to not kick it until the Referee sounds his whistle.

So the BJ gives them the ball, and then assumes a position where? Seems you should have all the other officials in position first, and then it's just a matter of whichever official gives them the ball getting into position, which almost always would take less time than the kicking team would need to place the ball & kick it, which would be the most common manner of free kick. Do you save much time by having the officials and the players get ready at the same time?

Robert

[Patton]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

So the BJ gives them the ball, and then assumes a position where? Seems you should have all the other officials in position first, and then it's just a matter of whichever official gives them the ball getting into position, which almost always would take less time than the kicking team would need to place the ball & kick it, which would be the most common manner of free kick. Do you save much time by having the officials and the players get ready at the same time?

Robert

This year's mechanics have the BJ check that the other 3 officials in the box (U, SJ and FJ) are ready prior to handing the ball to the kicker. After he gives the ball to the kicker, the BJ runs off to the sideline. The referee blows the ready as soon as the BJ is in position.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Patton

This year's mechanics have the BJ check that the other 3 officials in the box (U, SJ and FJ) are ready prior to handing the ball to the kicker. After he gives the ball to the kicker, the BJ runs off to the sideline. The referee blows the ready as soon as the BJ is in position.

What official is to be stationed closest to the center of K's restraining line? If the answer is a sideline official, then I understand the problem.

Does nobody have a view from behind the ball as it's kicked? I'm sure you've discussed free kick coverage, but if I had 5 officials I'd probably place one on the sideline at K's restraining line, 2 at R's, one in the middle of the field behind K, and one deep. If I had 6 I'd put the most athletic at middle depth in the middle.

Robert