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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 08:45pm
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End of Game Punch

I was doing a Modified game and it was the very last play of a game in which the home team was on the receiving end of a very sound beating. The visiting team just ran a little dive up the middle to run the clock out. There was a fumble and as the linesman I ran in to uncover the pile. We scraped kids off til we got to the defender who made the tackle and the runner. The tackler went to get up, then laid back down and gave the runner a punch in the stomach. Not a wind-knocked-out punch, just a frustration punch. I flagged him for PF, and said something to the effect of "are you kidding me? Especially when I'm standing right here?" and the kid replied "I was just trying to get up." Game is over, defender's (the one who threw the punch) coach comes up to me. Asks me what I had, since the game was over we didn't report the penalty. I said #20 punched the kid in the stomach. He grabbed his player's mask and said, "you're not playing in the next game" and thanked me. Good coach if you ask me. The reason for posting this here is I'm wondering what you all think of how I handled it, and if there's anything I could've/should've done differently?
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 08:50pm
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+1

Sounds good to me.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 09:41pm
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The punch should have been flagged and the player DQ'd. I know the game is over and there's no yardage to be marked off but the DQ is legit and should be followed through. A report should then be filed.

Rule 1-1-8

The officials’ jurisdiction extends through the referee’s declaration
of the end of the fourth period or overtime.
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Old Wed Oct 01, 2008, 10:41pm
MJT MJT is offline
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You have not yet ended the game until the R raises the ball above his head, so as Walt said, you have a DQ, which will probably affect him for at least one game.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 01:42am
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Originally Posted by MJT View Post
You have not yet ended the game until the R raises the ball above his head, so as Walt said, you have a DQ, which will probably affect him for at least one game.
I agree. This is not a hold (illegal formation, etc.). The player needs to realize this is wrong, and he needs to be penalized for it. At the end of the game, throwing the flag is just that....only throwing the flag, there is no real penalty for it. By 'writing it up' he knows it's wrong, he is penalized for it, and you don't have to fall back on the coach for teaching the kind a lesson. And, not saying this coach is a dishonest guy, but, who knows, he (or a coach in a similar situations) may decide after a few days that he needs the player in the next game, rationalizes that what the kid did is not that bad, and he decides to put him out there.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 06:41am
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You have not yet ended the game until the R raises the ball above his head, so as Walt said, you have a DQ, which will probably affect him for at least one game.
This is something that I am glad to hear. In Canada, the game would be over and no penalty could be applied - including DQ.

In basketball, the game isn't over until the officials "leave the visual confines of the playing area". It's good to see that a similar event exists, for football, after the last tackle.

(Although, I do think that the R having to lift a ball above his head is stupid. What happens if the ball is 60 yards downfield on a hail mary pass? The ball has to be retrieved just to end the game? Silly.)
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 07:17am
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This is something that I am glad to hear. In Canada, the game would be over and no penalty could be applied - including DQ.

In basketball, the game isn't over until the officials "leave the visual confines of the playing area". It's good to see that a similar event exists, for football, after the last tackle.

(Although, I do think that the R having to lift a ball above his head is stupid. What happens if the ball is 60 yards downfield on a hail mary pass? The ball has to be retrieved just to end the game? Silly.)
Nah, we'd be in the locker room before the ball was retrieved.

It's not the act that the ball is raised, it's the referee declaring the game ended (1-1-8). I can do that without a football in my hand. Most of the time, my umpire holds the ball up.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 07:33am
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Nah, we'd be in the locker room before the ball was retrieved.

It's not the act that the ball is raised, it's the referee declaring the game ended (1-1-8). I can do that without a football in my hand. Most of the time, my umpire holds the ball up.
Some official is near the ball in this case though and he can raise the ball as well. It's probably more of a ritual and tradition than anything. I'm sure very few people even notice we do it.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 09:04am
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In basketball.....
Basketball.....in Canada??? Good one!


(please refrain from listing all the canadian ballers...just ribbing you! Yes, I admire Steve Nash and his skills.)

cheers,
tro
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 09:38am
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Basketball.....in Canada??? Good one!


(please refrain from listing all the canadian ballers...just ribbing you! Yes, I admire Steve Nash and his skills.)

cheers,
tro
Ya. We had one NBE team but they folded. The Vancouver Grizzlies I think they were.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 10:52am
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Ya. We had one NBE team but they folded. The Vancouver Grizzlies I think they were.
Do the Toronto Raptors not count?
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 11:04am
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Absolutely no question as to the validity of flagging the infraction, and if you considered the infraction to be serious enough to officially DQ the player, which may depending on administrative procedures restrict further playing opportunities. Yes you can, and DQ may well be an entirely appropriate application of the current rules.

However, whether you can and whether you should, are not always the same thing. In the situation described, it sounded like the coach took immediate and appropriate action in using this incident as a teaching experience. Modified football (pre-freshman) is clearly intended in NYS as a learning level, and although the action described is a clear violation of the rules, deferring the implementation and execution of penalty to, what sounded like, a coach who understands and appreciates his mentoring role, seems like a prudent, constructive decision on your part.

Establishing a cooperative relationship between coaches and officials towards consistency in teaching necessary respect for the game, as well as opponents, especially at lower levels serves officials, coaches as well as players, well. You handled it right.
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 12:09pm
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Originally Posted by RochesterRef View Post
He grabbed his player's mask and said, "you're not playing in the next game" and thanked me. Good coach if you ask me.
Bad coach if you ask me. I hate when they grab the face mask, after all the time I tell the players in practice to never do that, even when they're just fooling around. You can have hold of a mask and be unable to let go fast enough if either you or the one whose mask you're holding slips or trips.

But regarding the player's apparent supension, I've seen there are some bad sports among children, but due to must-play rules they have to get into games, and sometimes coaches are just looking for an excuse to not have to play them, and you just gave him the ticket.

Robert
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Old Thu Oct 02, 2008, 01:08pm
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Do the Toronto Raptors not count?
Funny...but sadly true. I guess I don't have to mention that BB was invented by a Canuck, do I?

That's right...Basketball and wind chill. Gotta love it!
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Old Fri Oct 03, 2008, 10:30am
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Originally Posted by HossHumard View Post
Funny...but sadly true. I guess I don't have to mention that BB was invented by a Canuck, do I?

That's right...Basketball and wind chill. Gotta love it!
I thought canada plays BB on ice using a puck instead of a round ball?
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