Thoughts of officals on the A11 offense.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

First of all, there's nothing about it that prevents a defender's shooting up the middle. He just can't hit the snapper on the way.

But second, did it ever occur to you that there could be other reasons to line up in that formation? And that when the snapper does snap the ball deep, it doesn't matter in terms of his exposure what type of play it's going to be?

I certainly do understand this.

However, I also have seen teams trying to get a cheap automatic first down by exploiting this rule. QB backs up a bit deeper than usual (about 7 yds instead of the usual shotgun 5) and then want the auto first down when the center is blocked. It's not about safety for them -- those coaches WANT the center to get drilled so they can go from 3rd and long to 1st and 10. And I'm not playing that game. In my judgment in those situations, it's just short of seven, coach, sorry.

I've only seen it 3-4 times since Roughing the Snapper was put into the rules, but each time the emphasis wasn't on safety, it was an attempted "gotcha" moment.

[KurtBryan]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I certainly do understand this.

However, I also have seen teams trying to get a cheap automatic first down by exploiting this rule. QB backs up a bit deeper than usual (about 7 yds instead of the usual shotgun 5) and then want the auto first down when the center is blocked. It's not about safety for them -- those coaches WANT the center to get drilled so they can go from 3rd and long to 1st and 10. And I'm not playing that game. In my judgment in those situations, it's just short of seven, coach, sorry.

I've only seen it 3-4 times since Roughing the Snapper was put into the rules, but each time the emphasis wasn't on safety, it was an attempted "gotcha" moment.

Rich, interesting take too. We have now played 14 games in the A-11, and have not received one roughing the snapper call vs. the other team's defense. Going into the games, we HOPE our Center does not get cheap shotted or accidentally hurt due to roughing.

The opposing coaches know the rules, and I have not seen anybody get penalized for it, which is a good thing.

KB

[Mike L]

I gotta wonder why any "big business" types would be interested in this at all. NCAA, this offense is dead. NFL, this offense is dead. Attempts to compete with the NFL, fail every time. What business opportunities are there in HS ball outside of maybe Texas?
Let's face the facts, this is nothing more than taking advantage of a rule exception that maybe allows a school with a small student base to compete against a bigger school. That's it, despite the attempts at all the crap hyping it as "more fun", "officials love/endorse it", "innovation", "future of the game".

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Attempts to compete with the NFL, fail every time.

Not every time. There was the AFL.

[Murd]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I certainly do understand this.

However, I also have seen teams trying to get a cheap automatic first down by exploiting this rule. QB backs up a bit deeper than usual (about 7 yds instead of the usual shotgun 5) and then want the auto first down when the center is blocked. It's not about safety for them -- those coaches WANT the center to get drilled so they can go from 3rd and long to 1st and 10. And I'm not playing that game. In my judgment in those situations, it's just short of seven, coach, sorry.

I've only seen it 3-4 times since Roughing the Snapper was put into the rules, but each time the emphasis wasn't on safety, it was an attempted "gotcha" moment.

So you interpet the rules the way you think they should be interpeted? Nice.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Murd

So you interpet the rules the way you think they should be interpeted? Nice.

Yup. Sue me.

Same as when I tell an end to back up a step and when I don't penalize every little flinch. It's called "judgment" or "understanding the spirit of the rule."

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I certainly do understand this.

However, I also have seen teams trying to get a cheap automatic first down by exploiting this rule. QB backs up a bit deeper than usual (about 7 yds instead of the usual shotgun 5) and then want the auto first down when the center is blocked. It's not about safety for them -- those coaches WANT the center to get drilled so they can go from 3rd and long to 1st and 10.

Then there should be some way for the officials to signal pre-snap to the other team that it's a scrimmage kick formation.

Of course I blame the rules makers at NCAA & Fed for this. I wrote about this a while ago at rec.sport.officiating, not sure about here. The rule should not reference the formation, but rather the position of the snapper's head.

BTW, there are some leagues for players below a certain age that require the snapper to snap with head up. I'm pretty sure they're the same ones that don't have normal live scrimmage kick plays.

Robert

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Then there should be some way for the officials to signal pre-snap to the other team that it's a scrimmage kick formation.

Of course I blame the rules makers at NCAA & Fed for this. I wrote about this a while ago at rec.sport.officiating, not sure about here. The rule should not reference the formation, but rather the position of the snapper's head.

BTW, there are some leagues for players below a certain age that require the snapper to snap with head up. I'm pretty sure they're the same ones that don't have normal live scrimmage kick plays.

Robert

Part of it is an officiating challenge. When it's 4th down and an obvious kicking situation, we are prepared for the numbering exception and the snapper protection. Our umpire calls out loudly to the players and the officials. (An aside: It's bad form to say "Stay off the snapper" on a field with adolescent boys (and officials).)

If a coach told me in the pregame they did this, I would make the other team aware so they could stay off. But no awareness. The last time this happened, they just dropped the QB back almost 7 yards somewhere between 6 and 8 yards) and then tried the whole "gotcha" thing afterwards.