Are officals reprimanded for bad games?

[CoaachJF]

Girls State Quaterfinals today. In closing minutes one offical misses three foul calls under the basket and calls a double dribble, that was overturned by the other offical. Before I ask my question, I will let you know my team lost by one point, but we lost because we shot 1-12 from the foul line not because of the offical. My question is though does anything happen to an official that makes a bad call in a game or many bad calls during a season? Thanks for taking the time to read my question.

[theshortbaldref]

In a tournament? I'd say you're stuck with the chap. During the season, I'd think a call to the proper pool reps, or district reps, or even the state HQ to lodge a complaint might get your squeaky wheel greased. Want real action? Call the rest of the coaches in the area and withhold your votes for him/her when tournament picks are being made. We had some stripes in our local district and divisional tournaments this month that wouldn't make it out of apprenticeship if their fellow refs had their druthers. But sadly, shmoozing and politics have too much influence. Pool evaluation committees, if given the proper input, might be able to weed out the subpar whistles and reward the deserving ones. MHO.

[Jeremy Hohn]

On the college level, we have our games reviewed by our comissioner randomly or if something comes up that warrants it. On the HS level here in Texas, usually in games of that magnitude there is a representative of the governing board there to determine the job well done.....or if not....

[Tim C]

Agreeing with Jeremy. In our area it would be rare if an evaluator was not at a game of the level you speak.

"Usually" officials continue to work playoffs IF they are rated high than another. As the games get fewer there is less need for officials so the rating separates the field.

Now we would also have to deal with the question:

"What makes your view of the calls correct and the officials wrong?"

Don't get me wrong officials miss calls all the time but they also do not officiate with their "heart". Coaches, fans and players see things differently because of their involvement.

Tee

[just another ref]

Originally posted by CoaachJF
Girls State Quaterfinals today. In closing minutes one offical misses three foul calls under the basket and calls a double dribble, that was overturned by the other offical.

2 questions, just being objective, nothing personal. Who, besides you said that he missed 3 fouls? I mean, he may have missed 10 fouls, but the point is you say that he missed 3 as if that were now documented somewhere.

What exactly happened on the "overturned" double dribble.
One official does not have the authority to overturn another official's judgment call. The only way this call could have been changed is if the 2 officials conferred and went with another call which presumably happened first.

[Paul LeBoutillier]

It happens. We had a kid a couple years ago (probably in his early 20s)who was nothing short of AWFUL. No coaches had to complain about him because the officials who worked with him connected with our Assignor and let him know, in no uncertain terms, that this kid should not be officiating.

Every official can have a bad game from time to time. The more experienced he/she becomes these should obviously happen less and less. My point is, if an official is consistently blowing it BIG TIME there should be a pretty natural movement within the ranks to either help the person or encourage him/her to give it up.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by CoaachJF
Girls State Quaterfinals today. In closing minutes one offical misses three foul calls under the basket and calls a double dribble, that was overturned by the other offical. Before I ask my question, I will let you know my team lost by one point, but we lost because we shot 1-12 from the foul line not because of the offical. My question is though does anything happen to an official that makes a bad call in a game or many bad calls during a season? Thanks for taking the time to read my question.

Correction. "one official misses three foul calls" in your opinion. In most state tournaments, the officials are being evaluated the whole time and only the best advance. If this official made it to the quarterfinals, the evaluators must have thought he was pretty good. He was calling the game with his eyes and you were watching it with your heart. I doubt that his double dribble was "overturned." The other official(s) probably had a call too and after a brief conference, they decided that the double dribble happened after the other call.

Z

[JRutledge]

This depends greatly on what your area does and how it hires officials. If you live in my state, assignments are handled by the State Office and specific individuals handle all post season assignments. This is not done through a local association or local coaches determining who does what and who stays home. And by the time the playoffs start, the official already know if they are advancing to the next level at least. You would have to be aware of your own local procedures on this.

But in general if you have factual information or tape, something probably will be done in some way. But to what extent is another issue all together.

Peace

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by just another ref

2 questions, just being objective, nothing personal. Who, besides you said that he missed 3 fouls? I mean, he may have missed 10 fouls, but the point is you say that he missed 3 as if that were now documented somewhere.

What exactly happened on the "overturned" double dribble.
One official does not have the authority to overturn another official's judgment call. The only way this call could have been changed is if the 2 officials conferred and went with another call which presumably happened first.

How about A1 is dribbling, picks up ball, B1 knocks ball free, O1 sees defensive play and O2 does not, A1 commences dribbling, O2 says double dribble. I think that a couple of refs could confer on what was seen and have an inadvertent whistle.

As for 3 missed fouls, there is contact all the time, especially underneath. It is always a foul when you need it to be called, it is good defense when you are on the other bench. We won by two this weekend, had three shots against us with two blocks and one major shot alteration in the last 10 seconds (really!), and I sweated a foul call on each of them because there was some body contact. I thought we played good D, challenging the shots cleanly, and body contact was initiated by the offense jumping into the defender (no disadv to the D, therefore incidental). Refs agreed and no-called it, opponent thinks they missed three fouls. You tell me what it was - I think it depends on which bench you occupied.

[Zebra1]

I'm kind of on the same boat as theshortbaldref. This is speaking from a personal stand point, and it might sound as if I'm putting myself on a pedestal. I just got my votes back from the state yesterday. I knew I had one bad game this year. My partner and I could not get on the same page. I just had a feeling they would give me a no vote. I'm not yet in our state tourney. yes vote = 1 pt. no vote = -2pts. Anyway I got 20 yes votes and 2 no votes. Those 2 allowed me not to recieve a tourney assignment. So I do think one bad game can hurt you in the long run. But on the other hand, to keep my head up, I'm working my 1st D3 post season game tonight. That's the diference between HS and college. That's just my opinion.I do understand that politics are everywhere, especially HS. Are they that bad in the higher level's? Just wondering if I have to start kissing $%# to advance to the next level. My feeling is let your court performance do the talking, but obviously that is not the way it works.


"Everyone has their own opinion, but mine is the only one that counts."

[ronald]

I thought we played good D, challenging the shots cleanly, and body contact was initiated by the offense jumping into the defender (no disadv to the D, therefore incidental).

I actually called an offensive foul on a play like this early in the season but since then have no called it every time including this past Sunday in a men's rec. After reflecting on it, I was peeved with myself for not calling a charge because the guy jumped a good two feet into the defensive player on a drive along the baseline where he had to jump back in to get from behind the backboard. I have often seen this no called but at times wish it would be called a charge.

Appreciate any thoughts on this type of situation and how others handle it.

[Zebra1]

I think it depends on the severity of the contact. I've made it a player control or team control and I've done the infamous "no-call". Either way it's a no win situation.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by ronald
I thought we played good D, challenging the shots cleanly, and body contact was initiated by the offense jumping into the defender (no disadv to the D, therefore incidental).

I actually called an offensive foul on a play like this early in the season but since then have no called it every time including this past Sunday in a men's rec. After reflecting on it, I was peeved with myself for not calling a charge because the guy jumped a good two feet into the defensive player on a drive along the baseline where he had to jump back in to get from behind the backboard. I have often seen this no called but at times wish it would be called a charge.

Appreciate any thoughts on this type of situation and how others handle it.

Contact was there but not severe, defense was set and remained vertical, defense was not displaced, and offense was forcing a shot over a well-positioned defender. This is, and always should be, a no-call in my book. And these were no-calls throughout the game.

As for this being a no-win situation, I guess it is if you mean are you going to please both coaches with either a call or a no-call. If the coach is watching the game, he may understand the no-call if it has been consistently been a no-call, but most coaches want any contact during a shot to be a foul on the defense. It doesn't work that way.

[just another ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hawks Coach

What exactly happened on the "overturned" double dribble.
One official does not have the authority to overturn another official's judgment call. The only way this call could have been changed is if the 2 officials conferred and went with another call which presumably happened first.

How about A1 is dribbling, picks up ball, B1 knocks ball free, O1 sees defensive play and O2 does not, A1 commences dribbling, O2 says double dribble. I think that a couple of refs could confer on what was seen and have an inadvertent whistle.

This goes along with what I was trying to say. They confer, and the official changes his own call. The point was that one official could not call a violation and another simply say there was no violation and continue in the same direction.

As for 3 missed fouls, there is contact all the time, especially underneath. It is always a foul when you need it to be called, it is good defense when you are on the other bench. You tell me what it was - I think it depends on which bench you occupied.

My thoughts exactly.