Thoughts of officals on the A11 offense.

[KurtBryan]

TX Mike:

Appreciate the nasty words and immature and repetitive statements and mistruths you make without skipping a beat.

Lots of fun and interesting teams putting their own spin on the A-11 offense, some winning games and others losing games. It happens.

We are stockpiling various videos and DVD's from coaches who have sent us their videos and clips, and we are getting ready to launch our first version of Top Ten A-11 Plays of the Week nationwide next week...but again, keep up the good work on your end.

KB

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

TX Mike:

Appreciate the nasty words and immature and repetitive statements and mistruths you make without skipping a beat.

Lots of fun and interesting teams putting their own spin on the A-11 offense, some winning games and others losing games. It happens.

We are stockpiling various videos and DVD's from coaches who have sent us their videos and clips, and we are getting ready to launch our first version of Top Ten A-11 Plays of the Week nationwide next week...but again, keep up the good work on your end.

KB

Enjoy your year exploiting a loophole in the rules. It will be closed. Haven't seen it yet on the field, but I've told my crew to be super-sticklers on formation/shift/motion rules if we ever do. In other words, if you wish to exploit this loophole, you better do it PERFECTLY.

[OverAndBack]

While I appreciate things that simplify the officiating experience, if you're asking, I'd just as soon have you do nothing but run all game and never kick because there's less running.

[Mike L]

RichMSN,
that's the way it's going to be around our parts as well. The play, as described by Hawk65, will generate a formation foul here because initial positioning of everyone but the center is in the backfield.
We have one school down here running it. So far they are 1-3.

[mbyron]

I think, as I've said, that it's more probable than not that FED will rewrite the numbering exception this off-season. If they do not, however, expect more and more states to simply ban the A-11 outright.

My sense is that about a dozen do so now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that number double next season (including Ohio). But, as I say, I expect that FED will be in front on this issue, despite lobbying from the Friends of the A-11™, and make further action by state associations unnecessary.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mike L

RichMSN,
that's the way it's going to be around our parts as well. The play, as described by Hawk65, will generate a formation foul here because initial positioning of everyone but the center is in the backfield.
We have one school down here running it. So far they are 1-3.

We had one school a few years ago that tried exploiting the "roughing the snapper" rule on a crucial play by lining the QB 7 yards deep at the snap. No flag.

I told him he'd better protect himself because it appeared to me the QB was only 6.5 yards deep.

[KurtBryan]

Dear Officials:

It is OK if we are putting out a highlight show featuring various teams using the offense...no big deal, it is fun, and the kids love it.

It is also OK if some of you guys do not like the offense, many more do, respectfully.

We had a very solid officiating crew work our game when we went to Southern California to play Laguna Beach. They officiated the game well, made some good calls and things went smoothly.

Prior to the game in my pre-game chat on the field with all of the officials, the sincere gentleman wearing the White Hat that night made it clear that football like the A-11 IS the game's future. Those are his words, not yours truly. Again, just another experienced Official who sees and understands where football is headed, and has made it clear to us in words or writing.

There is plenty of room in America for traditional football and also new brands of football, and I love them all, and respect them all.

Have a great day.

KB

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Dear Officials:

It is OK if we are putting out a highlight show featuring various teams using the offense...no big deal, it is fun, and the kids love it.

It is also OK if some of you guys do not like the offense, many more do, respectfully.

We had a very solid officiating crew work our game when we trecked to Southern California to play Laguna Beach. They officiated the game well, made some good calls and things went smoothly.

Prior to the game in my pre-game chat on the field with all of the officials, the sincere gentleman wearing the White Hat that night made it clear that football like the A-11 IS the game's future. Those are his words, not yours truly. Again, just another experienced Official who sees and understands where football is headed, and has made it clear to us in words or writing.

There is plenty of room in America for traditional football and also new brands of football, and I love them all, and respect them all.

Have a great day.

KB

Dear Coach,

This is not a fan site. We do not care what plays are in the top 10 or 100. This is a site for officials. We have discussed your offense extensively and the fact you keep pushing it has brought many states to outlaw it and the NF will likely do the same. This is not about tradition verse new age. This is about rules that have loopholes and are almost always closed to either clarify or disallow certain actions. This is why rules committees change rules all the time in all sports. And if you look at the tone of the country and the NF committee, what one White Hat thinks is not going to change the reality. Almost half the country has outlawed the offense already and states that use NCAA rules will not be allow this offense either. I do not see the NCAA throwing out their rules (or the NFL) to make this offense acceptable. And I seriously doubt that many schools are going to run an offense that might make their kids non-recruitable to other levels because they have not worked a more conventional offense. Nice try, now it is time for you to go away. Honestly this is starting to sound like a bunch of spam than a solid discussion about a silly offense.

Peace

[KurtBryan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Dear Coach,

This is not a fan site. We do not care what plays are in the top 10 or 100. This is a site for officials. We have discussed your offense extensively and the fact you keep pushing it has brought many states to outlaw it and the NF will likely do the same. This is not about tradition verse new age. This is about rules that have loopholes and are almost always closed to either clarify or disallow certain actions. This is why rules committees change rules all the time in all sports. And if you look at the tone of the country and the NF committee, what one White Hat thinks is not going to change the reality. Almost half the country has outlawed the offense already and states that use NCAA rules will not be allow this offense either. I do not see the NCAA throwing out their rules (or the NFL) to make this offense acceptable. And I seriously doubt that many schools are going to run an offense that might make their kids non-recruitable to other levels because they have not worked a more conventional offense. Nice try, now it is time for you to go away. Honestly this is starting to sound like a bunch of spam than a solid discussion about a silly offense.

Peace

Thanks, Rut, and I have posted other questions on officiating topics and/or replied to many on this board and others, etc.

1. It is NOT true that nearly half of the 48 states have banned the offense. It is 8 states plus D.C., A-11 is Legal in 40 states.

2. Recruiting of Kids: It is Not true the A-11 hurts kids chances of playing collegiate football. The Coaches who talk to us, LIKE the fact they see kids playing in space (most college teams are spread out now), because it gives them a chance to gauge the kid's speed, quickness, agility, strength and reaction time, because most of the players are easy to see, etc.

3. This is an excellent forum about many officiating issues on several threads, and No this is Not spam. I am not the one who brought it up, but it is important to keep the truth out there, when other people deliberately spread mistruths.

4. Like was said, earlier...there is PLENTY of room in America for traditional wonderful football, and new cutting edge brands of football as well.

Have a great week, and thank you.

KB

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KurtBryan

Dear Officials:

It is OK if we are putting out a highlight show featuring various teams using the offense...no big deal, it is fun, and the kids love it.

It is also OK if some of you guys do not like the offense, many more do, respectfully.

We had a very solid officiating crew work our game when we went to Southern California to play Laguna Beach. They officiated the game well, made some good calls and things went smoothly.

Prior to the game in my pre-game chat on the field with all of the officials, the sincere gentleman wearing the White Hat that night made it clear that football like the A-11 IS the game's future. Those are his words, not yours truly. Again, just another experienced Official who sees and understands where football is headed, and has made it clear to us in words or writing.

There is plenty of room in America for traditional football and also new brands of football, and I love them all, and respect them all.

Have a great day.

KB

I find it interesting that you put more stock in one white hat's view and not another. How transparent that only those that support your view have any credibility.

I echo Rut. Get lost.

[KurtBryan]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I find it interesting that you put more stock in one white hat's view and not another. How transparent that only those that support your view have any credibility.

I echo Rut. Get lost.

Rich, please be kind enough to read my posts, I have made it VERY CLEAR I respect Officials who have differing views about this offense, but I respect all other systems of offense to. Always have and will.

Thank you, KB

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We had one school a few years ago that tried exploiting the "roughing the snapper" rule on a crucial play by lining the QB 7 yards deep at the snap. No flag.

I told him he'd better protect himself because it appeared to me the QB was only 6.5 yards deep.

What was the roughing the snapper rule adopted for? It's for the snapper, isn't it? Then why do you care whether the player getting the snap was a kicker or passer? The effect on the snapper is the same.

Robert

[Mike L]

Because, per rule there cannot be roughing the snapper unless the offense is in a scrimmage kick formation. And you can't be in a scrimmage kick formation unless someone is in position to receive a snap who is at least 7 yds behind the LOS.
But, if the rule is ignored because they are attempting to pass out of the formation rather than kick, I agree we have a problem.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Because, per rule there cannot be roughing the snapper unless the offense is in a scrimmage kick formation. And you can't be in a scrimmage kick formation unless someone is in position to receive a snap who is at least 7 yds behind the LOS.

But, if the rule is ignored because they are attempting to pass out of the formation rather than kick, I agree we have a problem.

What do you mean, "if the rule is ignored"? "Scrimmage kick formation" is a technical term with a specific definition; it has nothing to do with whether a kick is imminent. Roughing the snapper was put in the rules a few years ago because of the position & action of the snapper when snapping the ball deep, which is the same regardless of whether it's a run, pass, or kick play.

Robert

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What was the roughing the snapper rule adopted for? It's for the snapper, isn't it? Then why do you care whether the player getting the snap was a kicker or passer? The effect on the snapper is the same.

Robert

It's an end run around a rule just as the A-11 is an end run around the numbering exception. The protection is only for a scrimmage kick formation. Running every play out of that formation to avoid having a defender able to shoot up the middle is ludicrous.

If the guy is clearly 7+ yards deep (quick glance, obvious), I'll enforce it, but if it's borderline, I'm not going to penalize it.