San Diego/Denver

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really love the PTI show. I even love the commentary from Wilbon on the show. But at some point when are media people going to educate themselves about officiating matter.

Mike Pereira earlier today on "Outside the Lines" had an interview with Bob Ley. In that interview, Pereira made it clear that officials are downgraded for calls and situations where they make mistakes. And he said that this call could cost Ed Hoculli or any official a possible Super Bowl, playoff opportunity or their job if

Wilbon then goes on a rant about how the NFL is scapegoating Hoculli for this call. Instead it is clear that Wilbon does not realize that this is not a unique situation and this one call would never fire an official all by itself. And now the public thinks that the NFL just downgrades officials when they are really mad. Instead, part of the interview Pereira made it clear that every official is judged on every play. It just never ceases to amaze me how uneducated people that claim to have all the inside information, that they cannot talk to someone and get their facts straight. I am not a media member, and I know better than many of these guys. It only makes me wonder how much in their profession they know little about, but they write on these topics daily.

Peace

You are 100% correct, Jeff.

It's amazing to me that some in the media are either reacting as Wilbon (apparently) did or as if they've just today come to this realization that there are repercussions for NFL Officials who make mistakes.

Of course there are repercussions. There are always repercussions, and always have been. This is not new. Did Phil Luckett get downgraded? You bet? So do most officials in most games unless they call the Perfect Game. They're just not all as obvious as this one. No one calls to ask Pereira if the side judge from a Kansas City/Tennessee game got downgraded for missing a call.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Did Phil Luckett get downgraded?

To clarify:

Jerome Bettis made the mistake in the Pittsburg coin flip game.

The tackle on Joe Horn was all Luckett.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Did Phil Luckett get downgraded? You bet?

According to Pareira Phil Luckett asked to be removed from the White Hat position.

He was involved the Pitt/Det coin flip in '98. (may or may not have been his fault)

He was involved in Testaverde TD v. Seattle in '98. (not his fault and pre-instant replay)

He was involved in Music City Miracle. (lauded as a great call)

He collided with Joe Horn on a long pass attempt. (probably his fault but I don't the mechanics of football)

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

According to Pareira Phil Luckett asked to be removed from the White Hat position.

He was involved the Pitt/Det coin flip in '98. (may or may not have been his fault)

He was involved in Testaverde TD v. Seattle in '98. (not his fault and pre-instant replay)

He was involved in Music City Miracle. (lauded as a great call)

He collided with Joe Horn on a long pass attempt. (probably his fault but I don't the mechanics of football)

I was just using him as an example, and maybe not the best one, but, as has been pointed out (and as we know, but Michael Wilbon apparently does not), every official gets graded (and downgraded) all the time. Graded well for getting it right, graded poorly for getting it wrong.

I'm not grasping how the Testaverde thing wasn't his fault, though (wing's call?).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I was just using him as an example, and maybe not the best one, but, as has been pointed out (and as we know, but Michael Wilbon apparently does not), every official gets graded (and downgraded) all the time. Graded well for getting it right, graded poorly for getting it wrong.

I'm not grasping how the Testaverde thing wasn't his fault, though (wing's call?).

I know this is a minor issue, but from my understanding they are only downgraded for bad plays. If they get a play right or they use the proper mechanics or positioning, they do not get an "upgrade." I will ask in a couple of weeks to be sure when I will see at least two NFL Officials at an association function.

Peace

[OverAndBack]

You may be right. The term "upgrade" may be a misnomer (though I didn't use it in the post you quoted). "Graded" they do get. I read once how it all works, and I think they can get a +1 or something (I think it's in one of Markbreit's books, not sure) for a really good call under pressure. I may be misremembering.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

You may be right. The term "upgrade" may be a misnomer (though I didn't use it in the post you quoted). "Graded" they do get. I read once how it all works, and I think they can get a +1 or something (I think it's in one of Markbreit's books, not sure) for a really good call under pressure. I may be misremembering.

I know one of the disputes a few years ago during the brief union strike was this issue. I have no idea if that ever changed; I just remember the longest current tenured NFL Official from this area said that that was in issue in their negotiations from the NFL. I do not remember if that specific issue was resolved or not.

Peace

[OverAndBack]

Okay.

Point is, though, as we all know and as (surprise!) everyone else is just finding out, the NFL doesn't just sit idly by and ignore mistakes, no matter what the call, no matter who makes it, no matter what the situation. As far as I know, the procedure is the same for everybody, but if you google "NFL official grades" or something, you see eleventymillion media stories about how this appears to be some big revelation.

Hochuli's not going to get fired for it, there's still 15 weeks left in the season for him to achieve sufficient grades to work in the playoffs, you would think.

I'd be real curious to see if he works a game in San Diego anytime in, say, the next millenium, though.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know this is a minor issue, but from my understanding they are only downgraded for bad plays. If they get a play right or they use the proper mechanics or positioning, they do not get an "upgrade." I will ask in a couple of weeks to be sure when I will see at least two NFL Officials at an association function.

That would be great.

Here's what I was going by, a passage from Markbreit's second book (which is really the first book with some new material):

Later, the supervisors reviewed the game films and graded me on all my calls. They grade every call from 1 to 7. A routine call is a 5, a good call a 6, an outstanding call a 7. In 224 games that year, maybe they gave out three 7's. That Monday, when Commissioner Pete Rozelle reviewed the play, I heard that he asked a supervisor in the league office, "What grade did Markbreit get on that call?" The supervisor said, "He got a 7." Rozelle said, "Is that all?"

This was in the aftermath of the Charles Martin/Jim McMahon situation in 1986, so as that was 22 years ago, they may have changed the format since then. But that's what I was going by.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I was just using him as an example, and maybe not the best one, but, as has been pointed out (and as we know, but Michael Wilbon apparently does not), every official gets graded (and downgraded) all the time. Graded well for getting it right, graded poorly for getting it wrong.

I'm not grasping how the Testaverde thing wasn't his fault, though (wing's call?).

The Testaverde TD wasn't his call, it was one of the wings. All he did was report the TD after the discussion.