substitution vs participation

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

I would also like to see some of these rules if they are different then the ones I posted. While understandably confusing due to both containing “when 12 or men are on the field” the deciding factor seems to be when the player enters the field, and the player substituted’s reaction. Nothing seems to indicate that if the official messes up by not doing his job or pretending he didn’t he has the right to takes it out on the players by calling a penalty that is impossible to apply if the lesser occurred.

Rule 9.6.4c - It is illegal participation...To have 12 or more players participating at the snap or free kick.

I don't understand your continued refusal to accept what everyone says here but it doesn't surprise me at all. The bottom line is, if the official recognized the problem before the snap and flags it, you get a dead ball illegal sub foul. If he doesn't, you get a live ball illegal part foul and no amount of sideline lawyering is going to change it to a dead ball foul. Time to live with it and move on.

editted to add....why is it always us bad officials are "taking it out on the players" when we are simply enforcing the penalties required due to player/coach actions?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Rule 9.6.4c - It is illegal participation...To have 12 or more players participating at the snap or free kick.

I don't understand your continued refusal to accept what everyone says here but it doesn't surprise me at all. The bottom line is, if the official recognized the problem before the snap and flags it, you get a dead ball illegal sub foul. If he doesn't, you get a live ball illegal part foul and no amount of sideline lawyering is going to change it to a dead ball foul. Time to live with it and move on.

Well you can have a live ball substitution foul and the NF does address this specifically. Once the ball is live, you have to determine when what that player did during the play. There action will determine the foul. If you can catch it before the play comes off, that is the best thing to do. Also if players do not leave immediately after being subbed for, then that can cause the play to shut down.

Peace

[Mike L]

I'm trying to stick to the OP rather than the myriad of possible other situations this particular instance could bring up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I'm trying to stick to the OP rather than the myriad of possible other situations this particular instance could bring up.

I get that, but it must be made clear that the rules allow for a live ball substitution infraction. There are people that will read this on only think there is one option or the other.

Peace