No one saw it!

[parepat]

This happened in last friday (thankfully not to me). What would you have done.

With 25 seconds to go, home team scores to bring the score to 27-28 in favor of the visitors. Home team attempts a 2 point try. On the try the home team runs a hand off up the middle. The wings run in and neither has a spot. Both yell in that they don't have it. In the meantime the runner stands up with the ball approximately 4 yards deep in the end zone. The other 3 officials also state that they did not see how the ball got into the endzone. After approximately 45 seconds, the referee signals that the try was unsuccessful. Thoughts.

[FTVMartin]

As umpire I would hope that I could offer some input as to the runner crossing the line.

If the ball is in the endzone and you don't have anything that killed the play before that I would say it was a score.

[SouthGARef]

First off, if five or more officials can't see a ball crossing a goal line, we have a problem.

However, all we know in this case is that the ball is in the opponents endzone. Without any further knowledge, the fundamental is that possession of a live ball in the opponents endzone is a score.

Award the two points.

[waltjp]

This is a good lesson in what happens when everyone gets too close to the play. Someone has to stay wide and keep the whole play in front of them.

[svm1010]

I'm with SouthGARef

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by waltjp

This is a good lesson in what happens when everyone gets too close to the play. Someone has to stay wide and keep the whole play in front of them.

I would say this would be more likely when the wings park their butts on the sideline and refuse to come in. You have to move in on a goal line play up the gut!

[TXMike]

Has to be a score.

[JugglingReferee]

Ouch. Bad situation to get into.

I would have to rule a score, based on the info given.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Jim D

I would say this would be more likely when the wings park their butts on the sideline and refuse to come in. You have to move in on a goal line play up the gut!

The wings would have to crash the pile on this play and the U is already there but the R and BJ should stay back to keep a wide field of vision. If everyone is looking at the same thing you're going to miss something.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by waltjp

The wings would have to crash the pile on this play and the U is already there but the R and BJ should stay back to keep a wide field of vision. If everyone is looking at the same thing you're going to miss something.

OK, I thought you didn't want the wings to come in. This is their primary call so they need to. I would call this a TD.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I agree with SouthGARef also. If no one saw the runner down in the field of play and all they saw was him in possession of the ball in his opponent's end zone, what else could you do but award a score??

Here’s a similar play that actually occurred in a college game some years ago—1991 I think. This story was presented at the 1995 NASO Summit by Bill Richardson, the Pac-10 referee of the game.

Near the end of the game, UCLA is at USC’s 1-yard line going in for the winning score. On the snap, the QB muffs it. It rolls down his leg where he inadvertently kicks it into USC’s endzone. A mass of humanity ensues. Officials attempt to get to the bottom of the pile. After all but the last two players are pulled off, the umpire reports that there’s no ball at the bottom of the pile?!?! Looking around, R spots a UCLA player, Brian Allen, holding the ball aloft in the back of the end zone dying to celebrate.

What do you do???

Here’s what actually happened: Once the U (Walt Wolfe) could find no ball at the bottom of the pile and they discovered Allen in the back of the endzone, referee Bill Richardson called all seven officials together. They had a player in the back of the endzone with the ball. Richardson wanted to know, “How did he get it?” No one knew. At that point he stepped into the field and signaled TD for UCLA. He announced over the mike, “After searching for the ball, an offensive player was discovered to have it in the end zone. By rule, we have a touchdown.”

That's how he ruled a similar play.

The big question is how could such a thing happen and what could we do to prevent it. waltp sort of hit the nail on the head. In such cases, there’s no need for all officials to attack the pile. If the deep officials (B, F, and S)in this game--obviously a 7-man game--had stayed back they probably would have seen the ball come out of the pile in Allen’s possession. Additionally, they could have been watching for any ‘extracurricular’ activity that might occur. Let one (or two at most) officials dig, another stand above the pile to give the signal. The diggers tell the standing official who has the ball and he signals appropriately.

[Edited to address mbyron's observation.]

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by parepat

This happened in last friday (thankfully not to me). What would you have done.

With 25 seconds to go, home team scores to bring the score to 27-28 in favor of the visitors. Home team attempts a 2 point try. On the try the home team runs a hand off up the middle. The wings run in and neither has a spot. Both yell in that they don't have it. In the meantime the runner stands up with the ball approximately 4 yards deep in the end zone. The other 3 officials also state that they did not see how the ball got into the endzone. After approximately 45 seconds, the referee signals that the try was unsuccessful. Thoughts.

My first question is why did the wings rush in if they did not have the ball? Recall the Eli Manning pass from the Super Bowl when Mike Carey came in only to see Eli get loose and Carey had to quickly retreat.

If it was the runner who took the handoff that was four yards deep in the end zone and no one on the crew had any evidence that the ball was fumbled, why would you not allow the score?

Its the old metaphor if you go to bed and wake up the next morning with snow on the ground you can be reasonably certain it snowed.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

My first question is why did the wings rush in if they did not have the ball? Recall the Eli Manning pass from the Super Bowl when Mike Carey came in only to see Eli get loose and Carey had to quickly retreat.

Carey was a WH not a wing. The wings have to come in on an apparent goal line plunge into the line. It's a critical call and it just can't be done from the sideline. It would be rare that they'd be caught by a fake for more than a second or two, but if they did they can stop. I agree that you don't need all officials within a couple feet of each other, but the wings have to get the call.

[mbyron]

Something wasn't right. Then it got fixed.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: In reading through the thread, no one has said to rule the try unsuccessful. For those that might be thinking that, but have not posted, answer this simple rhetorical question: If the Team A coach asked you where (on what yardline) the ball became dead, what would you tell him??