No one saw it!

[MJT]

How could it be anything but a TD. As stated, good reason to have the B (or S, F, and B in 7-man) stay back and have some range of vision.

[Bad Mood Risin]

I've had that exact play. A was trailing by with ball at the 1 when they called their last TO with 0:02 remaining. They split both wings all the way to the sidelines then snuck the ball up the middle. There was a huge pile on the goal line. When the U found the ball, it was in A's possession about 6 inches inside the endzone.

Because no one saw it until we found it in the EZ, we called it a TD.

We got in a bit of hot water becasue the L, who was on the same side of the field as the camera, slowly moved in and stuck a foot forward, as if he had a spot. The film was sent to the association asking the commissioner why it was called a TD if he had a spot. In fact, he had no spot, but was hedging in case he needed to act as if he did -- a piece of poor officiating, really.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Something's not right here.

REPLY: You're right...I meant that it was a UCLA player holding the ball. I'll edit. Thanks.

[With_Two_Flakes]

I remember being taught at a clinic many years ago by an Umpire name of Brian Balliet (back then in the MAC, now in the NFL) about the "big pile of bodies" goal line situations and that the way to handle it was eye contact.

1st eye contact - between the wing guys. 3 possibilities:- one of them is selling a progress spot, one of them is signalling a score or both have no clue.

2nd eye contact - between the Umpire and the two wing guys. If the Umpire sees both wing guys giving (what Balliet described as) the "Forrest Gump" stare back at him, then he knows they got nothin' and he has to start digging for the ball.

Seeing the Ump digging will trigger the Referee to close up to the pile so the Ref can signal the score if the Ump declares the ball is over the goal line. Looks bush-league for an Ump down on his knees to signal.

This mechanic has saved my crew at least half a dozen times in the last 15 years.

[prosec34]

First of all, I would never be yelling to anyone that I didn't see what happened. You can communicate to your partners without letting the coaches and fans hear you.

As a wing, you have to set up close to the nearest end on this play, and come in hard if it's going up the middle. Hopefully one of the wings gets a clear look. Sometimes they don't, despite their best efforts. That's when it's the umpires duty to extrapolate what occurred. We had a play like this last week in a varsity game, where both of us wings were blocked out. When everyone unpiled, most of the ballcarrier's upper body as well as the ball were in the endzone. Our umpire promptly ruled touchdown. I would note that he knew to take over the call without either of us wings saying a word. After all, we hadn't blown the ball dead, we hadn't shown a spot, and we hadn't ruled touchdown. There's no yelling required for him to know it's his call to make, and if he has to guess, so be it.

The bottom line is the wings need to hustle and do their job, but the umpire has to be ready to make a quick call if we don't.

[svm1010]

Originally Posted by Jim D

Carey was a WH not a wing. The wings have to come in on an apparent goal line plunge into the line. It's a critical call and it just can't be done from the sideline. It would be rare that they'd be caught by a fake for more than a second or two, but if they did they can stop. I agree that you don't need all officials within a couple feet of each other, but the wings have to get the call.

to add, a responsible Wing should be crashing the pile, but must also be aware of the surrounding area and not crash carelessly incase the runner bounces out wide. by crashing in contol the wing should be able to retreat and keep play in front of them.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

If the Team A coach asked you where (on what yardline) the ball became dead, what would you tell him??

In the endzone where we found team A player possessing the ball.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by prosec34

As a wing, you have to set up close to the nearest end on this play, and come in hard if it's going up the middle.

Great advice if you want someone to beat you to the pylon. Wings, stay wide where you belong.

[parepat]

I'll give you a little more information on the original post. The film shows the line judge running in to a spot. Once he gets to this spot he yells that he does not have the ball. He admits he has no spot. The puzzling thing was that he never leaves this spot during the entire episode. He leans over and tries to talk to the umpire. I believe the umpire thought the ball was in a pile at the goal line; but. it was behind him. The back judge stood at the back of the end zone and never speaks a word. The linesman is never seen in the film and verified that he did not see the ball. The Referee spoke to the umpire but no one else. For about the last 15 seconds prior to waving it off, he stands by himself with a, "I think I'm gonna be sick" look on his face. The crew never got together in any way shape or form.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by parepat

I'll give you a little more information on the original post. The film shows the line judge running in to a spot. Once he gets to this spot he yells that he does not have the ball. He admits he has no spot. The puzzling thing was that he never leaves this spot during the entire episode. He leans over and tries to talk to the umpire. I believe the umpire thought the ball was in a pile at the goal line; but. it was behind him. The back judge stood at the back of the end zone and never speaks a word. The linesman is never seen in the film and verified that he did not see the ball. The Referee spoke to the umpire but no one else. For about the last 15 seconds prior to waving it off, he stands by himself with a, "I think I'm gonna be sick" look on his face. The crew never got together in any way shape or form.

REPLY: Bad time for the back judge to go "stationary" and "mute" on the crew...

[umpjeremy]

In Kansas they are pushing extremely hard that on every play and every down the wings stay on the sidelines. On a try where it's going to obviously be for two, my BJ is going to be at the back of the endzone opposite me, the Umpire. So if I'm lined up right side 5 yards off the los, he's going to be left side at the back of the ez. My wings are way out of position to make a call. This will probably be one of those where I'll turn to my wings and just give a subtle thumbs up for seeing the ball cross in clean hands. I won't throw up the signal just hold my thumb up or down in front of me and turn so that one or the other can see my signal.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by umpjeremy

In Kansas they are pushing extremely hard that on every play and every down the wings stay on the sidelines. On a try where it's going to obviously be for two, my BJ is going to be at the back of the endzone opposite me, the Umpire. So if I'm lined up right side 5 yards off the los, he's going to be left side at the back of the ez. My wings are way out of position to make a call. This will probably be one of those where I'll turn to my wings and just give a subtle thumbs up for seeing the ball cross in clean hands. I won't throw up the signal just hold my thumb up or down in front of me and turn so that one or the other can see my signal.

We've done it this way every year since I started 8 years ago and it works just fine. Most of the time it is very obvious that the runner got into the end zone. Otherwise the wings come running in at the half yard line until they find the ball and give their signal (short or TD). The umpire can definitely help if he knows for sure the ball got in but the signal should still be the wing. It may take some getting used to but it does work and looks much better.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Bad time for the back judge to go "stationary" and "mute" on the crew...

There was one BJ I worked with who had me wishing he came with a 'mute' button.

[trocared]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: In reading through the thread, no one has said to rule the try unsuccessful. For those that might be thinking that, but have not posted, answer this simple rhetorical question: If the Team A coach asked you where (on what yardline) the ball became dead, what would you tell him??

no speakie englisse

[The Cynic]

Alright guys... here is the infamous play. Parepat has provided most of the details correctly with an exception or two. You will see the back judge run in (not just stand there), but he never locates the ball carrier.

I am curious... do you think he gets in or not?

When you click on the link, you will find that the quality is bad but underneath the video is an option to "watch in high quality", sometimes it will let you do that and other times it won't. Either way, watch #21 get up in the endzone and the officials' handling of the situation.

I hope it is something that everyone can learn from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9V7aRFLYc