Clear Sidelines

[BigGref]

I am new to the Linesman position on my crew and I had a couple of questions about the varsity sideline. How many out there have actually gotten to the point of throwing the 5/15 sideline flag? and how often do you throw a warning, and does coach/official interaction tend to change after the flag?

Also as a caveat, our (indiana) rules meeting mentioned some possible discussion about moving to having NO coaches or personnel in the team box in the future. Are there any areas of the country that have tried this and how is it recieved?

Garrett

[babrown]

Here's how I handle this on our crew.
If I decide that a sideline warning is needed I only do it after a change of possesion and after the referee has maked the ball ready for play and ALWAYS in the first half.
There are two reason for this.
First, it let's everybody including the oppossing coach that we have a sideline warning.
Second, I'm not stopping the flow of the game like I would if I called the penalty while a team is driving. If it wasn't a problem in the first half it doesn't need to be called in the second half.
I have never called a 5 or 15 penalty using this method. Coach/official interaction has been fine as the coach knows I'm there to work hard for them.
Hope this helps.

[Forksref]

I threw the warning flag last year when I filled in as a wing. I am normally the R. The coach had been on the field during play several times and I had said, "Coach, you need to be off the field during play." This worked only briefly. Just before a play, I glanced and saw him several yards on the field. After the snap, I threw the flag and reported to the R what happened after the play. On my way back to the sideline, the coach said, "What was the flag for?" I said, "Coach, look where you are standing." No problems the rest of the game. I love the fact that we can get their attention with a flag that doesn't cost any yardage. Later, the wing on the other side threw a flag for the same thing. No problems after that. I am encouraging more of our crews to address the problem this way because it works. In the past, we have been reluctant to throw the flag. Our state official will back us 100% on this. One thing that I consider is that it is a safety issue, for me, players, subs and coaches.

As for the sideline, I wish the FED would go to the NCAA rule where NO one is in the first 2 yds. I worked a state championship game as a wing in a dome with NCAA markings and the state required that the coaches were to abide by the NCAA markings. It was HEAVEN! The coaches stuck to it and I had more room to work safely. I hope that with the 2 yd. restraining line introduced last year that it is a step toward college markings.

[BigGref]

thanks for the quick replies, and I am aware that I totally misused the word caveat, segue could of been an option, anyway I digress...

Someone in a recent clinic helped give me an idea, to appeal to the coaches well being, ie "you better keep all those players and extra coaches out of the way so you can move easier" a good hint that appeals to a coaches well being, obvious if this subtlety didn't work, a more direct comment, then warning may work

[HLin NC]

Bigref- I'd caution you against telling a coach "you better...." to start your conversation. It makes it sound like you are commanding. I prefer to say
"you know Coach, I've found that if the players stay back in their area, you and I both will have a lot more room to do our jobs."

I too yearn for the NCAA sideline- that pristine white belt looks like heaven!

[GoodScout]

Originally Posted by Forksref

The coach had been on the field during play several times and I had said, "Coach, you need to be off the field during play." This worked only briefly. Just before a play, I glanced and saw him several yards on the field.

You're confusing a sideline warning with illegal participation.

A sideline warning deals with having more than the three coaches (and no players except incoming substitutes) in the team box OFF the field. First time, warning; Second time, 5 yards; Subsequent times, 15.

Having a coach on the field during live play is illegal participation, and it's 15 yards instantly. No warnings, no nothing. Our state association has been very clear about it in its coaching and officiating clinics this summer. There have been too many instances of players and officials colliding with coaches in the field of play.

We let coaches wander on between downs to signal plays, yell at players, etc., but they have to be off the field by the snap. If they stay on, it's 15.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

You're confusing a sideline warning with illegal participation.

While you are 100% in your explaination of the sideline warning vs. illegal participation, It's convenience rather than confusion. The sideline warning is seen as an effective way to cure a host of sideline ills, from crowding the sidelines to quieting chirpy coaches.

I think most sideline officials feel that since they have this really cool tool (a flag but no yardage), they might as well use it for whatever they need. Technically it's a misapplication of the rule, but if it helps out in sideline control they are going to use it.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

...Having a coach on the field during live play is illegal participation, and it's 15 yards instantly. No warnings, no nothing.

REPLY: GoodScout...I agree that a coach being on the field is technically not subject to a sideline warning, although some use this as a means of showing that there will be no toleration for it while still avoiding a flag. It's a good way to get their attention.

However, it's also not illegal participation. It's really unsportsmanlike conduct--a succeeeding spot enforcement rather than the all-but-one live ball enforcement that IP would result in. See NF 9-8-1i. Unless of course, the coach on the field blocks someone or gets in the way so that play is affected. Then it would be IP. But if he's on the field and not impacting a play in progress, it's USC.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Jim D

While you are 100% in your explaination of the sideline warning vs. illegal participation,...

Of course as Bob pointed out, a coach on the field is UC not IP.

[Texas Aggie]

The NCAA has eliminated the warning, so in Texas now, its 5 yards on the first offense. Last year, Texas made a HUGE deal about sidelines and for the most part, things worked pretty well, even into the subvarsity level. As R this year, I will be telling my crew to strictly enforce the sideline rule in the pregame and I will also inform the coaches in our meetings that the rule will be enforced.

I recommend that in a varsity game, you have your R request from the head coach a "get back" coach. I don't care if he's an actual coach (trainer is OK), just as long as it is someone the players and coaches listen to. That way all the wing official has to do is say, "coach, get 'em back" and hopefully, he will get everyone back. Beyond that, give a verbal warning once, then throw the flag on the next play if its not heeded.

[GoodScout]

Bob and Jim are both correct on USC vs. IP. Mea culpa.

Our wings are actually instructed to kill the clock, go to the R, inform him you need a sideline warning, and then let HIM signal the warning. Kind of weird but I guess stopping play like that gets everyone's attention, since a flag in the middle of the field is more visible than one blocked by everyone standing on the sidelines.

That said, Georgia has determined that the days of coaches on the field during live play are done. Last year one of our wings had a brutal collision when he collided with a coach on the field while working his way downfield and his head turned to watch the action. Our guy was OK, but the coach had to go to the ER for observation.

If our first goal is safety and preventing injury, then you're not doing anyone a favor by letting a coach slide for coming onto the field during play.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Forksref

...As for the sideline, I wish the FED would go to the NCAA rule where NO one is in the first 2 yds.

REPLY: Sort of like putting the genie back in the bottle, huh?

[SouthGARef]

Originally Posted by GoodScout

Bob and Jim are both correct on USC vs. IP. Mea culpa.

Our wings are actually instructed to kill the clock, go to the R, inform him you need a sideline warning, and then let HIM signal the warning. Kind of weird but I guess stopping play like that gets everyone's attention, since a flag in the middle of the field is more visible than one blocked by everyone standing on the sidelines.

That said, Georgia has determined that the days of coaches on the field during live play are done. Last year one of our wings had a brutal collision when he collided with a coach on the field while working his way downfield and his head turned to watch the action. Our guy was OK, but the coach had to go to the ER for observation.

If our first goal is safety and preventing injury, then you're not doing anyone a favor by letting a coach slide for coming onto the field during play.

Scout,

From what I have heard, the GHSA has adopted the new NFHS Officials Manual mechanic -- meaning that the wing official will now throw the flag and report it just like any other penalty.

That sentiment was also mentioned by the Exec Dir at the rules clinic I attended.

[ajmc]

Haven't seen the 2008 books yet, but if the recommendation is for the wingofficial to flag the sideline, that makes a lot of sense.

Presumably, it's that wing official who has been cautioning the sideline about their behavior up to the point a flag becomes necessary, and that wing official whose requests are being ignored.

It's that wing official who will have to control that sideline for the rest of the game so it seems only logical that it's that wing official who will decide when his sideline has failed to comply, and it's that wing official who has the sole authority to penalize for non-compliance, so it's he, who it makes sense sideline personnel, needs to pay attention to.

[Ed Hickland]

The sidelines have been a problem for almost 30 years in our Association. One coach was so bold has to stroll onto the field with his bright yellow cord behind him. He has retired.

Sideline control has to be enforced not just by your crew but consistently with every crew at every game, otherwise, coaches will label those who enforce the sidelines and/or scratch the enforcers.

You need to make it tough on wingmen so they want to enforce the sidelines without fear of coaches' retribution. Something like failing to enforce the sidelines will result in not getting a playoff assignment.

Consider this, for officials poor sideline enforcement can have two negative consequences; 1) injury to a coach or other sideline person caused by the official with the impact being a multi-million dollar lawsuit like we saw in Texas; or, 2) injury to an official which could be serious. Either way the official could be hurt either physically or in the pocket book.