Hmmm..........what do you think?

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by ohioref

in ohio the hc has the right to ask if we misinterpeted a rule.

Do you pull out the book every time he asks?

[Mike L]

Just what is the Ohio procedure for book review? (too expensive to get video review I suppose). Does the coach have to just complain about the call or does he have to call for a conference and maybe risk a timeout? Is it just the head coach or any assitant as well? What if you're sure but the coach still complains, do you have to go to the book to prove you're right? And if you don't, how is that really any different than not even having the book? And like CO Ump said, what if there is disagreement amoung the officials but the coaches are clueless? Do you go to the book or just slip it by them? Does it take only 1 official to question or at least a tie in the "vote"? Or is it just left up to the referee to decide one way or the other?
I can understand the good intentions of getting the ruling right, but this is just such an unprofessional way to go about it and opens the crew up to so much crap I would think it would create many more problems than it could solve.
PS - I would hope my 747 pilot already knows how to start up engines rather than trying to open up a book while struggling to keep an unstable aircraft from falling out of the sky. I guess the same could be said for officials knowing the rules, huh?

PSS-it appears some of this may have been answered while I was typing away.

[Sonofanump]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Just what is the Ohio procedure for book review?
Is it just the head coach or any assitant as well?
And like CO Ump said, what if there is disagreement amoung the officials but the coaches are clueless?

Head Coach must call a TO, if none risk delay of game foul.

I only speak to head coaches.

The man with the white hat is in charge of our crew.



I still don’t know what rules 3.5.2.c and 3.5.11 means to everyone else?

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Just what is the Ohio procedure for book review? (too expensive to get video review I suppose). Does the coach have to just complain about the call or does he have to call for a conference and maybe risk a timeout? Is it just the head coach or any assitant as well? What if you're sure but the coach still complains, do you have to go to the book to prove you're right? And if you don't, how is that really any different than not even having the book? And like CO Ump said, what if there is disagreement amoung the officials but the coaches are clueless? Do you go to the book or just slip it by them? Does it take only 1 official to question or at least a tie in the "vote"? Or is it just left up to the referee to decide one way or the other?
I can understand the good intentions of getting the ruling right, but this is just such an unprofessional way to go about it and opens the crew up to so much crap I would think it would create many more problems than it could solve.
PS - I would hope my 747 pilot already knows how to start up engines rather than trying to open up a book while struggling to keep an unstable aircraft from falling out of the sky. I guess the same could be said for officials knowing the rules, huh?

PSS-it appears some of this may have been answered while I was typing away.

There is no rule regarding if or when we use the book. We are simply required to have it with us.

P.S. If you think that
1.Your pilot knows everything that there is to know about a machine with millions of parts or:

2. That there are not written resources on board available for the flight crew of a 747 you are naive.

[mikesears]

Originally Posted by Jim D

A lot of the plays involve multiple rules, defenitions, case book plays and misc. items from Reddings, the state, etc. so proving something to a coach could really be a problem.

Secondly, it's one thing to know the rules and then another to be able to quickly find the appropriate place in the book while some coach is arguing with you.

Finally, even with the rule book in front of them, I don't know that they would listen. I had a coach Friday that insisted a USC could be carried over to the kick off. He kept telling me that it was a point of emphasis this year and I was wrong. Because he was so sure he knew the rule and of the way 8-2-2 is written, I'm not sure even a rule book in front of me I would have been able to convince him in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm with Jim D on this one. How often do we say we have to understand defintions to be a good official? Just look around this forum when we have to cobble together several sections in order to answer some of those quirky plays.

I also agree with someone else who asked when it stops? Do we get the rulebook out if we simply have questions about something even if nobody complains?

I can't imagine the contractor I hired to run electricity into my home consulting the electrical codes. There are certain expectations we have when someone is hired as a contractor for a job. We expect that if they are licensed that they will know the rules governing the job and that they will be able to get the job done correctly? Would i demand an electrical contractor bring his copy of the electrical codes with him to the job? No. That is his decision. Would I fault him if he did? No, but I would lose faith in his ability to do a routine job if I found him consulting the book for something I thought he should know.

For those of you that live in states where such a thing is mandated, do what is required ("when in Rome...."). But for me, I won't carry a rulebook onto the field.

Maybe the shortage of officials has gotten so bad that we are putting crews on the field that really don't know the rules.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by mikesears

I'm with Jim D on this one. How often do we say we have to understand defintions to be a good official? Just look around this forum when we have to cobble together several sections in order to answer some of those quirky plays.

I also agree with someone else who asked when it stops? Do we get the rulebook out if we simply have questions about something even if nobody complains?

I can't imagine the contractor I hired to run electricity into my home consulting the electrical codes. There are certain expectations we have when someone is hired as a contractor for a job. We expect that if they are licensed that they will know the rules governing the job and that they will be able to get the job done correctly? Would i demand an electrical contractor bring his copy of the electrical codes with him to the job? No. That is his decision. Would I fault him if he did? No, but I would lose faith in his ability to do a routine job if I found him consulting the book for something I thought he should know.

For those of you that live in states where such a thing is mandated, do what is required ("when in Rome...."). But for me, I won't carry a rulebook onto the field.

Maybe the shortage of officials has gotten so bad that we are putting crews on the field that really don't know the rules.

Just another RESOURCE guys that may or may not come in handy in a given situation. I know you are frightened, but its really not that big of a deal.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Jim D

A lot of the plays involve multiple rules, defenitions, case book plays and misc. items from Reddings, the state, etc. so proving something to a coach could really be a problem.

Secondly, it's one thing to know the rules and then another to be able to quickly find the appropriate place in the book while some coach is arguing with you.

Finally, even with the rule book in front of them, I don't know that they would listen. I had a coach Friday that insisted a USC could be carried over to the kick off. He kept telling me that it was a point of emphasis this year and I was wrong. Because he was so sure he knew the rule and of the way 8-2-2 is written, I'm not sure even a rule book in front of me I would have been able to convince him in a reasonable amount of time.

All of these are valid points, but are irrelevant to the issue. No one said bringing the books on the field is a cure all. It is simply a RESOURCE. WHy are you all so threatened by it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by parepat

All of these are valid points, but are irrelevant to the issue. No one said bringing the books on the field is a cure all. It is simply a RESOURCE. WHy are you all so threatened by it.

I'm not threatened by it. I just won't do it unless it's required of me. Ego has nothing to do with it. But your defensiveness in the form of many consecutive posts speaks volumes.

If a coach asks me for a conference, I'll grant it. I'll talk with the crew, if needed. If we're wrong, we'll fix it. But our crew has rules knowledge and doesn't need to bring a book to the field to demonstrate it.

[BuckeyeRef]

Once you open the book on the field you're on the slope and it gets quite slippery very quickly.
To be frank, I don't know how you can justify not going to the book for every rule and app.[/QUOTE]


Everyone keeps making this claim, but ignores the reality of this claim. I have been doing games for nine years in Ohio. Only one time in nine years have we had to refer toa book. That was during a coaches requested conference with the referee. After that, there was no request to check the book on every play or every call. There has been no "slippery slope". Ohio has been bringing the books on the field for over a decade now and there has been no problem. No repeated requests to check the book. Like I said, in my nine years we've only used the book one time.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRef

Everyone keeps making this claim, but ignores the reality of this claim. I have been doing games for nine years in Ohio. Only one time in nine years have we had to refer toa book. That was during a coaches requested conference with the referee. After that, there was no request to check the book on every play or every call. There has been no "slippery slope". Ohio has been bringing the books on the field for over a decade now and there has been no problem. No repeated requests to check the book. Like I said, in my nine years we've only used the book one time.

You know what... since you have this rule, and your whole state has no problem pulling out the rulebook everytime there's a disagreement, perhaps the fans/players/coaches/etc in Ohio are a little more used to seeing it happen, and maybe you DON'T get the backlash.

I assure you, in the rest of the free world, where pulling out the rulebook during a game is unheard of, there WOULD be a backlash and a hit to our on-field credibility.

[BuckeyeRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You know what... since you have this rule, and your whole state has no problem pulling out the rulebook everytime there's a disagreement, perhaps the fans/players/coaches/etc in Ohio are a little more used to seeing it happen, and maybe you DON'T get the backlash.

I assure you, in the rest of the free world, where pulling out the rulebook during a game is unheard of, there WOULD be a backlash and a hit to our on-field credibility.

Where do you get the opinion that we pull out the rulebook every time there's a disagreement? Havent't you read the posts. In nine years it has only happened once. I hardly call that pulling out the book every time there is a disagreement. And amazingly, no one ever said another word after that one time. Noone even asked to look at the book again. In fact, I have had that coach in games since then, and he has never said anything about it again. The book is there for the very rare instances it is needed.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You know what... since you have this rule, and your whole state has no problem pulling out the rulebook everytime there's a disagreement, perhaps the fans/players/coaches/etc in Ohio are a little more used to seeing it happen, and maybe you DON'T get the backlash.

No where on this topic has anyone advocated "pulling out the rule book everytime there is a disagreement" In fact the posts indicate that the use of the rule book is very, very rare.

I assure you, in the rest of the free world, where pulling out the rulebook during a game is unheard of, there WOULD be a backlash and a hit to our on-field credibility.

Wow. You must have a very precarious grip on your onfield credibility. What is your opinion, then, of replay and the effect on your ego, er, credibility?