Dallas vs Chicago SNF

[MD Longhorn]

Just before halftime, Dallas sacks Grossman on 4th down with 3 seconds to go. R winds the clock, then stops it (with 1 second left), then practically sprints off the field. Question - shouldn't this have been reviewable by the booth (last 2 minutes of the half)? And any statements from the NFL about this play?

Also - anyone catch the phantom BIB and phantom OPI against Dallas in the first half, or the two phantom false-starts by Chicago offense in the 2nd?

I don't know this crew - was this just a bad night? How does this crew "rank"?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Just before halftime, Dallas sacks Grossman on 4th down with 3 seconds to go. R winds the clock, then stops it (with 1 second left), then practically sprints off the field. Question - shouldn't this have been reviewable by the booth (last 2 minutes of the half)? And any statements from the NFL about this play?

Also - anyone catch the phantom BIB and phantom OPI against Dallas in the first half, or the two phantom false-starts by Chicago offense in the 2nd?

I don't know this crew - was this just a bad night? How does this crew "rank"?

What should be reviewable? For the record, NFL timing is very different than other levels. The NFL stops the clock during QB sacks. Then they run the clock on the ready for play at some point. This could also vary with a certain time on the clock as they do other events in the game.

I did not watch much of the first half, so I cannot comment on the quality of those calls.

Peace

[NickelDeuce]

Yeah, but the the sack happened on 4th down which created a change of possession. Clock should have been stopped immediately. I believe the wind of the clock was simply a mistake. Even though there were 2-3 seconds left when he got sacked I'm not certain if that play is reviewable.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by NickelDeuce

Yeah, but the the sack happened on 4th down which created a change of possession. Clock should have been stopped immediately. I believe the wind of the clock was simply a mistake. Even though there were 2-3 seconds left when he got sacked I'm not certain if that play is reviewable.

For those wondering why Winter wound the clock, a sack stops the clock except in the last two minutes of the half, so on any down other than fourth inside of 2 minutes, he winds to alert the clock operator that it's not a normal sack situation where the clock stops.

So this means Winter had a brain cramp since it was fourth down. Wouldn't other officials signal the clock stoppage on fourth down, too? I know they would on my crew.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What should be reviewable? For the record, NFL timing is very different than other levels. The NFL stops the clock during QB sacks. Then they run the clock on the ready for play at some point. This could also vary with a certain time on the clock as they do other events in the game.

I did not watch much of the first half, so I cannot comment on the quality of those calls.

Peace

I would think that the fact that there were 3 seconds left on the clock when the play ended, which would give Dallas one more play to try a long pass or a 52 yard FG, would have been reviewable. NFL timing is different - but not in this case where a play is over that results in a change of possession.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I would think that the fact that there were 3 seconds left on the clock when the play ended, which would give Dallas one more play to try a long pass or a 52 yard FG, would have been reviewable. NFL timing is different - but not in this case where a play is over that results in a change of possession.

I was just giving you and example as to why you saw what you might have seen. I was not there and I was not watching the game. Also understand that the clock on TV is not always accurate to the clock in the stadium. It is possible that time had actually run out and the TV clock time was not the same. I have seen on many occasions where all of a sudden the clock is changed on TV because they were off a few seconds. Other than that, I think you would have to be on the crew to know for sure what happen or have a buddy in the NFL office that has some insight.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I was just giving you and example as to why you saw what you might have seen. I was not there and I was not watching the game. Also understand that the clock on TV is not always accurate to the clock in the stadium. It is possible that time had actually run out and the TV clock time was not the same. I have seen on many occasions where all of a sudden the clock is changed on TV because they were off a few seconds. Other than that, I think you would have to be on the crew to know for sure what happen or have a buddy in the NFL office that has some insight.

Peace

I've seen this too in NCAA or HS games on TV. NFL uses a camera actually on the clock - specifically for timing issues such as this one. NBC even showed us a superimposed replay, specifically showing the time that the sack occurred. They showed the clock from the moment of the snap (6 seconds), so it was obviously started at the right moment and was not several seconds off from the TV. It was started on the snap, not the RFP, on this play, and the sack was 3 seconds after the snap.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I've seen this too in NCAA or HS games on TV. NFL uses a camera actually on the clock - specifically for timing issues such as this one.

That is not entirely true. Many NFL broadcasts use a digital clock from a graphic. They are not always showing the clock or a camera of the clock. Also I know this can vary from one stadium to another. I know ESPN uses the graphic clock and not a video of the stadium clock.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

NBC even showed us a superimposed replay, specifically showing the time that the sack occurred. They showed the clock from the moment of the snap (6 seconds), so it was obviously started at the right moment and was not several seconds off from the TV. It was started on the snap, not the RFP, on this play, and the sack was 3 seconds after the snap.

Maybe you need to write the NFL a letter. It seems like only then you will be satisfied. BTW, the Cowboys won the game. And for me the Bears lost the game, so I am happy.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is not entirely true. Many NFL broadcasts use a digital clock from a graphic. They are not always showing the clock or a camera of the clock. Also I know this can vary from one stadium to another. I know ESPN uses the graphic clock and not a video of the stadium clock.

All NFL games have a camera on the clock for review purposes. ESPN does use a graphic clock (MNF used to as well), but also has a camera on the clock. The shot superimposed upon the screen was obviously a camera on the clock.

Maybe you need to write the NFL a letter. It seems like only then you will be satisfied. BTW, the Cowboys won the game. And for me the Bears lost the game, so I am happy.

You don't sound happy. Not sure why it bothers you so much to have someone ask if the NFL offices have made any comment regarding this situation. I'm not trying to become "satisfied", nor am I complaining. I am WONDERING, and am curious as to whether this has been mentioned or addressed. In my replies to you, I was trying to civilly answer your uninformed question, since you admitted you didn't see the situation. I was trying to clarify what actually happened to you. I see now the error of my ways.

Also ... not sure what the eventual winner of this contest has to do with anything. I'm asking about procedure on this particular play, and was also asking if anyone had wondered about 4 other calls during the game (2 for Dallas, 2 for Chicago). My allegiance or lack thereof really has nothing to do with it. It's not like I'm blaming the referees for anything in any direction.

I'm truly not sure why this seems to irk you so much.

[t-rex]

You've certainly aged yourself with that post. I thought my dad was the only one who remembered the Texans in Fair Park.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

All NFL games have a camera on the clock for review purposes. ESPN does use a graphic clock (MNF used to as well), but also has a camera on the clock. The shot superimposed upon the screen was obviously a camera on the clock.
You don't sound happy. Not sure why it bothers you so much to have someone ask if the NFL offices have made any comment regarding this situation. I'm not trying to become "satisfied", nor am I complaining. I am WONDERING, and am curious as to whether this has been mentioned or addressed. In my replies to you, I was trying to civilly answer your uninformed question, since you admitted you didn't see the situation. I was trying to clarify what actually happened to you. I see now the error of my ways.

Also ... not sure what the eventual winner of this contest has to do with anything. I'm asking about procedure on this particular play, and was also asking if anyone had wondered about 4 other calls during the game (2 for Dallas, 2 for Chicago). My allegiance or lack thereof really has nothing to do with it. It's not like I'm blaming the referees for anything in any direction.

I'm truly not sure why this seems to irk you so much.

If you have not noticed, no one here has actually answered your question other than pure speculation. I am sure that is because most of us do not know all the details of NFL rules and I do not know any officials that work the NFL that come here. I might ask one of my NFL friends that is a member of one of my association and maybe I can get some more information. And that will only be the case if he shows up to the association meeting and if I remember.

Also it has not irked me at all. I am responding to your question the best way I know how. I disagree with you on you position of what the TV shows for the NFL clock and that is because I have watched enough NFL games to know TV Networks do not always show the same things based on the stadium and the broadcast resources. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

There are over 200 rules differences from NCAA to NFL rules, I am sure most would be speculating on what the rules are or what is the current NFL policy on these kinds of situation. And for the average fan, the only thing you might know is what you are told through the media and not what actually the situation when watching games on TV is. I was at a college game and we had to speculate a couple of things while sitting in the stands.

It would also help if you got a sense of humor. The comment about who won for me was a joke. I am not a fan of either team and I do take pleasure in seeing the Bears lose on a regular basis. Calm down and step away from the computer. This is obviously a little to big for you to handle. If these answers are not adequate, you can pick up an NFL Rulebook or you can contact the league and see if they even respond to your request. I do know that these kinds of things are not always what they seem to be and there likely was more to what you saw than you know. That really was my biggest point because I have no idea what happen and your example did not clear anything up for me other than what you think took place. You would have to talk to the officials or the league to know what really happened. For all we know the official might have just thought the clock should have run out. Remember, that is pure speculation.

Peace

[bisonlj]

I was watching the game and saw this play. On the replays they were showing the stadium clock and not the digital TV clock. There were 6 seconds left at the snap and the sack was pretty quick so there should have been 2 or 3 seconds left. The R did wind initially and then stopped the clock. It was an obvious error but the initial question is can the clock error be reviewed? I think it probably can but the officials left the field immediately. I would be curious to know if this play was reviewable as well.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

On a side note the original Dallas Texans were an NFL franchise back in 1952 that went bankrupt and moved to Hershey, PA. to finish the season.

As the Hershey B'ars? Or was that another team?

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

No, they actually kept the name Dallas Texans. They originally got their start as the Boston Yanks before moving to New York where they became the New York Bulldogs. They became the the New York Yanks after they received many of the players off the defunct New York Yanks of the All American Football Conference. The most notable being Bobby Layne.

There was an artical in the Dayton Daily News (OH) last year about these team moves. The team started out as the Dayton Triangles before moving east.

[JRutledge]

According to Mike Perriara on the show "Inside the NFL" on HBO, the clock could not be reviewable. This play was talked about and in the piece featuring Perriara, this play was not reviewable.

Now that is the first official answer. Are you happy now?

Peace