Dallas vs. Seattle

[mcrowder]

OK, yes --- 99% of the time here, I'm an official. For this thread, call me fanboy if you want.

That said... did you guys see the reviewed pass to Terry Glenn around the 2 yard line? It appeared to me to be a very obvious non-catch. The ball hit his hands, was not controlled, went to the ground, where Glenn used the contact with the ground to retain control (a little - still not sure he really had it even after it hit the ground), and then immediately fumble.

While watching it, I was glad to see the play reviewed. I was not even worried about it - I knew it would be fixed. When the fix turned out to be the change of a TD to a safety (which turned out to be worse for the Boys, actually), I was shocked. I'm not sure when I crossed over from being able to rule objectively on the play, but I definitely don't feel very objective about it right now.

What say you - who saw it, and what did you think?

[Raymond]

I say you were viewing that play through Texas-colored glasses.

My initial thought before seeing the replays was that there was a possibility that the play would be ruled incomplete for the exact reason you stated. But then after the replays I thought it was obvious that Glenn controlled the ball while standing, attempted to tuck the ball away, slipped, his bottom hand hit the turf (left hand I think), and then he got up.

[Time2Ref]

I thought that play was called correctly, after replay.

What I couldn't believe was why did Parcels have Romo as the place kick holder if he wasn't going to fake the field goal? Isn't that the back-up quarterback's job usually?

In the NFL, can they attempt a field goal on 3rd down and again on 4th down if it misses?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

In the NFL, can they attempt a field goal on 3rd down and again on 4th down if it misses?

They changed the rule a few years ago. It used to be if you kicked prior to 4th down and it was blocked and the K-team recovered behind the LOS they could continue with their series. Now, once they attempt their kick, they lose their series of downs, unless of course, someone pulls a Leon Lett in which case it's treated like a muffed punt.

[cmathews]

Romo, was the holder because he started the season as the backup qb, which as was pointed out above is usually the holder.....even more unusual than having the starting qb be the holder (1 team this year...the broncos while plummer was starting) is changing the holder in the middle of the year, thus romo as the holder......if this play had occured on 3rd down, they would have had the opportunity to try it again as there was no legal kick attempted

[stevesmith]

Why is no one questioning the review of the spot near the 1 yard line? Has anyone ever seen a review of a quarterback sneak that is within inches of reaching the line to gain? The camera angles just aren't that perfect to make those determinations. In this case, I think they probably got the call right, but I do have a problem with the use of replay in that situation.

[mcrowder]

My problem on the review at that 1 1/2 is a) I don't think there was an angle that gave "indisputable evidence" that he didn't achieve the line to gain and b) Even without "indisputable evidence", I think (best guess from the replays we did see) they missed it by at least 2 feet. At WORST, Witten made it a few inches short of the 1.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

My problem on the review at that 1 1/2 is a) I don't think there was an angle that gave "indisputable evidence" that he didn't achieve the line to gain and b) Even without "indisputable evidence", I think (best guess from the replays we did see) they missed it by at least 2 feet. At WORST, Witten made it a few inches short of the 1.

They determined Witten's progress by the fact that he was parrallel to the sideline, with his left shoulder making the deepest penetration, which was only the 1-yd line (at best) and the ball stayed outside his right shoulder/hip the entire time it was in his possession.

I'm TE-sized (6'5"/265lbs) and it's at least 24" (2/3 of a yd) from shoulder-to-shoulder and I'm not wearing shoulder pads. I knew from the live action view of the play that the official gave Witten way too much progress. I was screaming for a replay immediately.

[mcrowder]

Honestly, I thought the initial ruling was too far forward as well. But I disagree with your assessment. Before he was turned around, his right side was further forward than his left. While it's possible he did not reach the LTG, I think he was AWFULLY close to it before he got turned. The viewpoint from the sideline was the clearest, and that's the one you describe. But the viewpoint from about the goalpost appeared to have him closer before he rolled sideways.

[Texas Aggie]

The initial ruling was that Whitten got about a half or so yard ahead of the line to gain, and that was probably too much. However, the ruling that placed the ball a half yard behind the line to gain after the replay was equally incorrect. He go ABOUT to the line to gain (give/take 6 inches), and the ball should have been put there for measurement.

The other problem was that they didn't really take a look and possibly measure Romo's advance either and he *might* have gotten very close to the first down spot. Had the replay taken the time they took on the previous play, it would have been very interesting.

That's the problem with replay. Under its best use, its still very inconsistent.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

OK, yes --- 99% of the time here, I'm an official. For this thread, call me fanboy if you want.

More like whineboy.

Backcourt Violation - Mavs Heat

Nothing changes with you. 99% of the time you're a fanboy. 1% of the time you're an official. If a Dallas team loses, it's the officials' fault.

[Texas Aggie]

If a Dallas team loses, it's the officials' fault.

Can you please point out where in this or the one other thread you referenced that said anything about a loss being the officials' fault?

[bisonlj]

NFL officials use a mechanic (and our FED crew is now using it as well) where they start a new set of downs with the nose of the ball touching a yard line. With the perfect lines on an NFL field you can be guaranteed of judgement without measurements if the nose of the ball is reaching the line to gain.

If that was the case here, the crew knew the ball had to reach the 1 to be a first down. I thought the same thing as BadNewsRef. He was pretty much straight-up with the ball in the arm furthest from the end zone and his feet never crossed the one. What this tells you is he never reached the line to gain. Whether it's 1 inch or 18 inches from the line is irrelevant. He was still short.

That being said, I thought it was pretty bold of the referee to overturn the spot. That was a very big spot in a very big game and you had better be 110% certain the spot was wrong. I guess it actually helped Dallas in a strange way. Had they given him the first down, they would have run the clock down to 4 seconds left and missed the field goal (assuming the same misfortune for TR) with no chance for a Hail Mary at the end. Terry Glenn was open at the back of the end zone and any tip would have resulted in a TD and win for Dallas. Just an odd twist to the play. What an amazing finish! I feel for your mcrowder.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Can you please point out where in this or the one other thread you referenced that said anything about a loss being the officials' fault?

Iirc correctly, there were a couple of other Mavericks fans whining about the officials too. Guess who?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Iirc correctly, there were a couple of other Mavericks fans whining about the officials too. Guess who?

Coming on here to ask for impartial thoughts from this group regarding officiating in a game where we feel we may not be impartial does not mean we are "blaming a loss on the officials". Far from it. I could name 10 reasons the Cowboys lost the Seattle game, and would never mention anything about the officiating. I could name 5 other reasons they are out of the playoffs (meaning ... reasons they were playing the Seahawks in the first place instead of sitting at home watching Philly play Seattle).

I simply wondered how the impartial official saw the play. I certainly am not going to get an impartial view at the water cooler around here. I thought the officials did a great job in the game, to be honest (as usual for the NFL). I just wanted to hear national thoughts on the play I had a question on.