Bag a fumble behind LOS

[ljdave]

NFHS - Is there a need to throw a bean bag when the fumble spot is behind the LOS? I say no, but I had no support at tonight's meeting. As I see it, when there is a fumble, it is a loose ball play up until someone gains possession. If a foul by A occurs between the snap and the recovery, there are two possible spots for penalty enforcement: (1) The basic spot which is the previous spot on a loose ball play, and (2) the spot of the foul if it happens behind the basic spot. This is administered from the flag and NEVER the spot of lost possession. Am I correct? Is there something I am neglecting such as: (1) An inadvertent whistle that occurs while the ball is loose (Maybe, but what coach would choose to take the result of the play which is a loss of yardage and a down), or (2) Some "End of the related run" situation that I am overlooking? Thanks......

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ljdave

NFHS - Is there a need to throw a bean bag when the fumble spot is behind the LOS? I say no, but I had no support at tonight's meeting. As I see it, when there is a fumble, it is a loose ball play up until someone gains possession. If a foul by A occurs between the snap and the recovery, there are two possible spots for penalty enforcement: (1) The basic spot which is the previous spot on a loose ball play, and (2) the spot of the foul if it happens behind the basic spot. This is administered from the flag and NEVER the spot of lost possession. Am I correct? Is there something I am neglecting such as: (1) An inadvertent whistle that occurs while the ball is loose (Maybe, but what coach would choose to take the result of the play which is a loss of yardage and a down), or (2) Some "End of the related run" situation that I am overlooking? Thanks......

Ask your colleagues WHY this needs to be bagged. Prepare to hear a lot of BS answers, including "we've always done that." I still see HS officials bagging interceptions every week.

[ABO77]

There's no reason to have a bag behind the NZ but I think everyone does it anyway, good habit I guess.

Another question you could ask is if you bag a backwards pass beyond the NZ? Its the end of a run and I think most forget/dont know to do it.

In fact ANY loss of possession (besides backward handing) beyond the NZ should have some type of marker...flag or bean bag.

[BktBallRef]

Is there a need to for penalty enforcement? No. Lots of people will tell you not to do it but it certainly doesn't hurt anything if you do.

We bag them, whether they're behind the LOS or not. While it's means nothing for penalty enforcement, to me it's just automatic. i don't have to concern myself with, "Is that behind the LOS or not?" Who cares? Throw it and sort it out later if necessary. It also tells your partners that the ball is loose. I don't see a problem with it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Is there a need to for penalty enforcement? No. Lots of people will tell you not to do it but it certainly doesn't hurt anything if you do.

We bag them, whether they're behind the LOS or not. While it's means nothing for penalty enforcement, to me it's just automatic. i don't have to concern myself with, "Is that behind the LOS or not?" Who cares? Throw it and sort it out later if necessary. It also tells your partners that the ball is loose. I don't see a problem with it.

Me either, but if I don't get one dropped as the ball comes out as the QB's sacked, I don't get annoyed with myself.

[Texas Aggie]

There's no reason to have a bag behind the NZ

Fumble out of bounds. Which might mean the wings are the only ones that bag it.

[insatty]

Third and 3 at A's 40 yardline. A12 hands off to A32 who sweeps right. B68 yanks A32's facemask at the A 39 yardline, causing a fumble. 15 yards enforced from the A 39, no? So beanbag needed at fumble spot.

[ABO77]

Originally Posted by insatty

Third and 3 at A's 40 yardline. A12 hands off to A32 who sweeps right. B68 yanks A32's facemask at the A 39 yardline, causing a fumble. 15 yards enforced from the A 39, no? So beanbag needed at fumble spot.

Huh?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by insatty

Third and 3 at A's 40 yardline. A12 hands off to A32 who sweeps right. B68 yanks A32's facemask at the A 39 yardline, causing a fumble. 15 yards enforced from the A 39, no? So beanbag needed at fumble spot.

You're telling us that you'd lob a flag AND a beanbag to the same spot on this play?

Before answering, consider this - if the facemask occurred at the 39, and the fumble at the 38 ... where are you enforcing from?

[bigjohn]

the bagged interception sure helps the stat guys!

[MJT]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

the bagged interception sure helps the stat guys!

That's too bad cuz I'm never going to bag in INT and then have to go get my bag 50 yards back upfield when they get tackled at the 20. The stat guys can get if off the video if they need to.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

the bagged interception sure helps the stat guys!

Good point, considering that our sole purpose on the field, and the motivation behind our actions, is to help the stat guys.

[raider]

According to 10.3.1.c, a fumble behind the line is a loose ball play. And according to 10.4.2.b, the enforcement spot for a penalty on a loose ball play is always the previous spot. Makes no difference if the ball goes out of bounds or not, nor if the ball is fumbled from behind the line and rolls beyond the line. Therefore, a beanbag means nothing and should not be thrown. In fact, about the only case for a beanbag behind the LOS is when it is a passing play, and R is the only one in proximity and the QB is being driven back prior to a sack. The beanbag can be used to mark the progress spot since the wing officials are most likely downfield.
Hope that helps.

Raider!

[STEVED21]

Originally Posted by insatty

Third and 3 at A's 40 yardline. A12 hands off to A32 who sweeps right. B68 yanks A32's facemask at the A 39 yardline, causing a fumble. 15 yards enforced from the A 39, no? So beanbag needed at fumble spot.

I'm enforcing from the 40 as this is a loose ball play and the basic spot is the previous spot. Beanbag isn't needed.

[JRutledge]

You bean bag the spot because it is not always clear where the spot is. Unless you are a wing you might not realize the spot is behind the LOS. You cannot assume anything. Also it tells everyone you have a fumble and your crew members not seeing the fumble know we now have a loose ball instead of assuming the player is down.

Peace