Legal or not?

[Suudy]

Even in the original, I'm not understanding why this is legal before the pass is thrown. Since 9.2.3d makes no reference to where the receiver is located relative to the LOS, and 2.3.5b explicitly excludes illegal use of the hands as a defense against pushing, pulling, or warding off an opponent, how is the original situation legal?

Let's change this up a bit. Would this change your ruling?

Receiver A2 runs an out pattern (beyond the line of scrimmage) as a potential receiver and QB A1 is also rolling to the right. Defensive player B1 is heading for the QB. As receiver A2 crosses in front of him while A2 is looking back to the QB, B1 pushes A2 out of his way so he can continue on his path to A1.

Now the receiver is beyond the line. A pass is not yet thrown. Is this illegal use of the hands?

[cmathews]

Granted I don't have my books with me. However, I don't recall any language in the rulebook that says that A must be a potential blocker before B can push them out of the way to get the ball. In the original situation, if the ball is in the air and the contact by B is not below the waist nor otherwise a personal foul, it is legal. There is no DPI behind the LOS and unless it is leading with the head, I probably don't have anything if A2 gets knocked down....I just don't see where anyone can interpret this play as illegal, for any reason, at least not from the Original Post....IMHO

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by cmathews

Granted I don't have my books with me. However, I don't recall any language in the rulebook that says that A must be a potential blocker before B can push them out of the way to get the ball.

It does, in rule 9.2.3d:

Art. 3...A defensive player shall not:
d. Contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker.

Coupled with 2.3.5b (emphasis mine):

Art. 5...A defensive player may also:
b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of the hands.

In the original post, it can be argued that A2 is no longer a potential blocker, thus the contact, even if in an attempt to get to the QB, is illegal use of the hands.

I think the question is whether A2 (or any other eligible receiver) is a potential blocker when behind the line. The key, I think, in the original post is that "A2 is looking back to the QB", thus is no longer a potential blocker.

[truerookie]

I would have a difficult time flagging this play. I have seen situations where a potential receiver turns into a blocker. In OP, I would interpret this situation as the receiver looking to seen the location of the QB until the receiver crosses the LOS. The defender is not 100% sure if the back is a receiver or blocker. Let's watch the entire play before we flag it.

[TXMike]

http://www.safootballchapter.us/VID/DefPF.WMV

This is the play on the NCAA tape. I still don't see the personal foul

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by TXMike

http://www.safootballchapter.us/VID/DefPF.WMV

This is the play on the NCAA tape. I still don't see the personal foul

REPLY: I don't either. The defender was in a direct line between the runner and the tackler. And it was clear that after the push, he continued on a path to the runner. He wasn't just hitting the blocker to hit him. What was he supposed to do--ask the blocker to move?

[Jim D]

Bob, That is the argument I had with our local state interpreter. His point was, regardless of the intent, etc. that this is illegal use of the hands on the defense for contacting a receiver. Let's just say we agreed to disagree on how this play should be treated.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Suudy

It does, in rule 9.2.3d:

Art. 3...A defensive player shall not:
d. Contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker.

Coupled with 2.3.5b (emphasis mine):

Art. 5...A defensive player may also:
b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of the hands.

In the original post, it can be argued that A2 is no longer a potential blocker, thus the contact, even if in an attempt to get to the QB, is illegal use of the hands.

I think the question is whether A2 (or any other eligible receiver) is a potential blocker when behind the line. The key, I think, in the original post is that "A2 is looking back to the QB", thus is no longer a potential blocker.

I would agree that in the backfield they should be considered potential blockers. The way I have always been taught is that they are no longer a potential blocker when they are on the same yard line or behind the defender....and it can be argued that the defense is attemting to get to a loose ball that they can legally touch or posess...granted it hasn't been thrown yet, but it is no more of a stretch to go down this road than to say the back is not a potential blocker in my mind...