Part I Test

[OverAndBack]

I had a long plane flight the other day, so I used the time to take the test without using the book and then checked my answers in the book (I got an 82 without the book, which is about 60 more than I would have gotten before I ever became an official). But that's just the setup.

I then filled in my answers online, and got a 98. I have some questions for the group about the two I got wrong and a couple of ones I apparently got right but still have questions about.

I got these wrong:

#61: "If end A1 accidentally goes out of bounds and returns during the down, he becomes an ineligible pass receiver."

I tried, but couldn't find a rule that said this specifically. I may have done transitive properties here, because a player who goes out of bounds (I don't know that "accidentally" is defined, either, is it?) can't come back in and participate. If you're knocked out of bounds, that's one thing, but, to me, "accidentally" doesn't necessarily cover it. I can accidentally take the wrong exit and have to go back around and get back on the interstate without being run off the road by another driver.

So I may have overthunk it here, but I figured that it was ambiguous enough that if you go out of bounds and therefore can't participate, you would be, by transitive theory, an ineligible receiver (whether or not the foul would be "illegal participation" by rule and not "illegal touching" or "ineligible receiver downfield" or whatever).

So I took it to be true, and apparently it's false. I can see that, too, but, like I said, I could have been overthinking.

#85:"R may recover any scrimmage kick anywhere between the goal lines and advance the ball."

What tripped me up was any scrimmage kick.

6-2-2 reads: "Art. 2... Any receiver may catch or recover a scrimmage kick in the field of play and advance, unless it is during a try, or unless any member of the receiving team has given a valid or invalid fair-catch signal. R may catch or recover a scrimmage kick in K’s end zone."

So there are exceptions. Any scrimmage kick is not true. A try is a scrimmage kick, no? If not, why would they make it an exception to the "recover a scrimmage kick in the field of play" above?

Again, I may have thought too much.

I also had a problem with the question (forget which one it was) about a substitute coming in who has the same number as a player going out. In my mind, that's anal (the fact that it's "true" to them). One #10 goes out, one comes in, that's fine. They can't both participate in the play. But, in my mind (and maybe yours), one subbing for the other seems fine to me. Your thoughts?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

#61: "If end A1 accidentally goes out of bounds and returns during the down, he becomes an ineligible pass receiver."

My research showed that 7-5-6-d states, "A player who is eligible at the start of the down remains eligible throughout the down." That is why I answered True. 9-6-1 says "... no player of A or K shall go out of bounds and return during the down unless blocked out of bounds by an opponent. ..."
So, although the player who accidentally goes out of bounds remains eligible, he can be flagged for IP.

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

#85:"R may recover any scrimmage kick anywhere between the goal lines and advance the ball."

I think you overthought it, as you discovered, R cannot advance a try that is not good and they can't advance a scrimmage kick when a teammate signals a fair catch.

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I also had a problem with the question (forget which one it was) about a substitute coming in who has the same number as a player going out. In my mind, that's anal (the fact that it's "true" to them). One #10 goes out, one comes in, that's fine. They can't both participate in the play. But, in my mind (and maybe yours), one subbing for the other seems fine to me. Your thoughts?

I agree with you on this one. 7-2-5-c states "Players of the same team shall not participate during the same down while wearing identical numbers." Preventative officiating would lead me to think that I would try to stop this penalty from occuring, but since the rulebook provides for a penalty if this happens (illegal numbering), I would also think that, technically, we shouldn't prevent two players from participating with identical numbers if that is what the coach wants to do.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

My research showed that 7-5-6-d states, "A player who is eligible at the start of the down remains eligible throughout the down." That is why I answered True. 9-6-1 says "... no player of A or K shall go out of bounds and return during the down unless blocked out of bounds by an opponent. ..."
So, although the player who accidentally goes out of bounds remains eligible, he can be flagged for IP.

I guess that makes sense. Strangely worded question, though.

I think you overthought it, as you discovered, R cannot advance a try that is not good and they can't advance a scrimmage kick when a teammate signals a fair catch.

So "any scrimmage kick" would be wrong then, wouldn't it? You can't advance a try (a scrimmage kick) that isn't good and you can't advance a scrimmage kick when there's a fair catch. So you can't recover and advance "any scrimmage kick" as there are exceptions to that.

[a4caster]

Rule #23 on taking NFHS tests...
A reference that uses the words "any, never, always, all" are usually false.

[Warrenkicker]

Rule #1 on NFHS tests: Read the instructions.

NOTE: In the exam situations, A-refers to the offensive team and B-refers to their opponents the defensive team. K-refers to the kicking team and R--refers to the receiving team. A1, B1, K1 and R1 are players of these teams. If team possession changes during the down, each team retains its identity. In kicking situations, it is not during a try and no fair-catch signal has been given unless specified. Unless stated, acts occur while: the ball is inbounds; a forward pass is legal; any out-of-bounds is between the goal lines. Line means scrimmage line. Reference to a foul is to a player foul which is not unsportsmanlike. There is no foul or change of possession, unless it is mentioned, and penalties are considered accepted for enforcement.

So for #85 you might say that the word "any" implies that it could be a try or that a fair-catch signal has been given but the question doesn't specify that. 6-2-2 is the rule reference.

In #61, leaving the field does not make you ineligible. It make you an illegal participant. While those are somewhat the same one just means you can't catch a pass while the other means you can't reenter the field to do anything. 7-5-6d and 9-6-1.

[OverAndBack]

In kicking situations, it is not during a try and no fair-catch signal has been given unless specified.

D'oh!

I should learn to read, I guess.

Rule #23 on taking NFHS tests...
A reference that uses the words "any, never, always, all" are usually false.

Except this one, apparently. But only because they did put that disclaimer in at the beginning which I did not read.

In #61, leaving the field does not make you ineligible. It make you an illegal participant.

That's what *I* said! Splitting hairs, but it's technically not true.

While those are somewhat the same one just means you can't catch a pass while the other means you can't reenter the field to do anything. 7-5-6d and 9-6-1.

That's what I was going on. Though the foul that you call on that is illegal participation and not illegal touching, so I guess that's what they're talking about.

And they apparently threw out question #3 (at least my state did).

[Agreen_14]

#85 is true on the test though right?

[Warrenkicker]

I say that #61 is False and #85 is True. However we are having a meeting tonight where we will get information from the state as to the answer they want to see.

[OverAndBack]

The answers, according to my state (presumably the NFHS, then) are

#61: False
#85: True

Had I read the disclaimer at the top of the test, I'd have gotten #85 right. #61 is, as we said, kinda odd.

And I don't know why they threw out question #3 (at least my state did). The rule clearly says the 3-yard (PAT) line is a minimum of 24 inches wide, not 48.

[dvasques]

once again, sorry for buggin with NFL questions but I guess I just read that an eligible receiver who goes out of bounds voluntarily becomes ineligible untill the pass is touched by an eligible receiver. Am I wrong?

[OverAndBack]

Not a bad question.

Wrong place for it, though.

NFL Rule 8, Article 3 (b): "An eligible receiver becomes ineligible if he goes out of bounds (prior to or during a pass) and remains ineligible until an eligible receiver or any defensive player touches the pass."

If he's forced out illegally, he's eligible as soon as he returns inbounds.

But, again, wrong thread for the question.

PS - Amazon sells the Official Rules of the NFL if you're really interested.

[dvasques]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Not a bad question.

Wrong place for it, though.

NFL Rule 8, Article 3 (b): "An eligible receiver becomes ineligible if he goes out of bounds (prior to or during a pass) and remains ineligible until an eligible receiver or any defensive player touches the pass."

If he's forced out illegally, he's eligible as soon as he returns inbounds.

But, again, wrong thread for the question.

PS - Amazon sells the Official Rules of the NFL if you're really interested.

Thanks, Over, and sorry again for asking 'bout NFL here. And I've got the book from last season. It's the only rulebook I'm able to get down here in Brasil, sadly

[LeRoy]

What on-line ??? Do you have a web page???

[OverAndBack]

My state lets you take the Part I exam online after your first year.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: O and B is correct. Fed answer key says:
#61 - False
#85 - True