Fed timing question

[Bob M.]

REPLY: ljudge...the NCAA and Fed rules for this play are entirely different. In NCAA you start the clock on the snap because the play ended with the anticipation of awarding B a new series. In Fed, you must actually award the new series for the clock to start on the snap.

The idea of taking the foul out of the play and making the clock decision solely on the outcome of the play is OK for NCAA but will get you into trouble for Fed.

[ljudge]

Thanks all for the replies today. I see where your coming from and if I hadn't read this NCAA ruling I would have been OK for fed. But now I understand the difference. So again, thanks!

Now I get to UN-learn all the NCAA clock rules that I have been studying all this time.

Bob - headed to Kean Univ. at 5am tomorrow for our 2-day clinic. 13 hours of presentations and meetings tomorrow followed by more (including field work) on Saturday. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY:
The idea of taking the foul out of the play and making the clock decision solely on the outcome of the play is OK for NCAA but will get you into trouble for Fed.

Bob, why would taking the foul out of the play get you in trouble for FED?

[MJT]

Jim, consider the following; 4th and 4 at B's 40 and A35 runs for three yards up the middle and B77 grabs but does not twists the runners face mask on the way down.
In NCAA, you will have the clock on the snap cuz B is going to be awarded a 1st down, even though they will not be cuz of the penalty. That is what Bob means "the anticipation of awarding B a new series."

As Bob says "in Fed, you must actually award the new series for the clock to start on the snap" after considering the effects of all penalties. So in the play I provided the clock will be on the RFP since the run ended IB's and A will continue their series.

[Jim D]

Maybe we're saying the same this but Bob's comment confused me. You have to consider the results of the play without the penalty first when deciding when to start the clock. Disregarding the penalty for a minute, the results of the play - tackled in bounds, ran out of bounds, incomplete pass, etc. are key in determining when the clock will start after the penalty enforcement. In any of the situations, if A ran out of bounds, regardless of awarding a new series to A or B or no one, the clock will start on the snap. Now, after you've looked at the results of the play, then you can add in any clock consideratons from the penalty.

[GregBar]

If you said that the defense encroached at the snap that is a dead ball foul in FED. A five yard penalty should have been assessed and first down on the 10 yard line. Also the 5 seconds should have been put back on the clock and clock starts on ready for play unless there was a reason for it to be dead by timeout, dropped pass or OOB on the previous play.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Jim D...I suppose I could have said it a little better than I did. I probably should have said "may get you into trouble." What I mean is that if you decide to start the clock on the snap solely on what transpired in the play--absent the foul--you can make a mistake. Example: A's 2nd down pass is intercepted at midfield. Official flags B for defensive pass interference. Absent the foul the clock starts on the snap. And this would be correct for NCAA. But for Fed, the clock will start on the ready.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

On the play in question, without the foul we're awarding a new series to team B and therefore would start the clock on the snap. With the foul, we're starting on the ready.