Timing Clarification on scrimmage kicks

[ljudge]

A's ball 4th and 8 on A40. A punts the ball and R runs into the kicker. R catches the ball at the B35 and is immediately tackled.

I believe I made a clock mistake last week on this one. I went on the RFP.

You can argue that we stopped the clock for two reasons. To award B a new series following a legal kick and also to administer a foul. So when the penalty was accepted it was 4th and 3 and I started on the RFP because I didn't actually award the series.

[FootballRef05]

IMO, B was never awarded a new series so I think you were correct in starting on the PFR.

[Theisey]

NFHS: If either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick.
That's the reason to start the clock on the snap and that did not happen.
Starting on the RFP was correct.

[dumbref]

OK, I admit to being confused also. But I was under the impression the clock would start on the snap. Case play 3.4.3 sit E is as close to this play as I can find. There is a legal kick and K is awarded a first down. Does it matter whether the first down is awarded because of the run or a penalty? I’m asking – not arguing.

I am also confused by case play 3.4.3 sit F. There is a fair catch by R, a penalty on K is accepted and the down is replayed. I know fair catch is list under Art4 (stop the clock), but it is not listed as a snap situation in Art 3. Why do we start the clock with the snap?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by dumbref

OK, I admit to being confused also. But I was under the impression the clock would start on the snap. Case play 3.4.3 sit E is as close to this play as I can find. There is a legal kick and K is awarded a first down. Does it matter whether the first down is awarded because of the run or a penalty? I’m asking – not arguing.

I am also confused by case play 3.4.3 sit F. There is a fair catch by R, a penalty on K is accepted and the down is replayed. I know fair catch is list under Art4 (stop the clock), but it is not listed as a snap situation in Art 3. Why do we start the clock with the snap?

REPLY: Let's take them one at a time...

In the posted play, it was 4th and 8. The penalty was for running into the kicker. Thus a 5 yard penalty would not give K a first down. That's the difference from your case play.

Your second question...making a fair catch is one of those 'major' clock-stoppers--those where "...the action that caused the down to end also caused the clock to stop." Just like an incomplete pass and a live ball going out of bounds. Hence, start on the snap

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Let's take them one at a time...

In the posted play, it was 4th and 8. The penalty was for running into the kicker. Thus a 5 yard penalty would not give K a first down. That's the difference from your case play.

Your second question...making a fair catch is one of those 'major' clock-stoppers--those where "...the action that caused the down to end also caused the clock to stop." Just like an incomplete pass and a live ball going out of bounds. Hence, start on the snap

1. Miss read - thought it a first

2. Thanks - that what I had deduced but was unsure.

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Let's take them one at a time...

In the posted play, it was 4th and 8. The penalty was for running into the kicker. Thus a 5 yard penalty would not give K a first down. That's the difference from your case play.

Your second question...making a fair catch is one of those 'major' clock-stoppers--those where "...the action that caused the down to end also caused the clock to stop." Just like an incomplete pass and a live ball going out of bounds. Hence, start on the snap

Bob M
3.4.3 sit F lists 3-4-3e as the rule support which makes no sense.

[shave-tail]

I could be wrong, but starting the clock or not would be linked to whether it was running or not before the snap of the scrimmage kick, since the penalty was accepted.

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by dumbref

Bob M
3.4.3 sit F lists 3-4-3e as the rule support which makes no sense.

You sure about that? I see it referencing 3-4-3c.

Odd, but both 3.4.3 Sit F and Sit G show as being old case plays (i.e. no astericks) but they sure aren't in the 2005 edition.
Regardless, I don't agree with the ruling for sit F.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ljudge

A's ball 4th and 8 on A40. A punts the ball and R runs into the kicker. R catches the ball at the B35 and is immediately tackled.

I believe I made a clock mistake last week on this one. I went on the RFP.

You can argue that we stopped the clock for two reasons. To award B a new series following a legal kick and also to administer a foul. So when the penalty was accepted it was 4th and 3 and I started on the RFP because I didn't actually award the series.

Before the 3-minute warning, all plays have the game clock start on the RFP. (Exception: after a Time Count foul or after a Timeout.)

After the 3-minute warning, the game clock starts on the snap as a penalty was enforced. If the penalty was declined, also on the snap because we had a COP.