Question on Penalty Enforcement

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Friday night's game (HS Varsity)...two flags on the same play. 3rd down and 7 on the defender's 12 yard line...The first flag was holding called on our slot back (it was a great call, the kid did it and got caught). After the whistle was blown, the defender who was held, turned and kneed our slot back in the stomach - flag was tossed...the crew got together and talked about it, then marched off 10 yards for the holding, then 15 yards for the USC, and told us it was 4th and two...since the holding call was accepted, shouldn't third down have been replayed? The WH explained that since there were two flags thrown, we couldn't have the down over...is that correct??

Assess 10 yards for the hold. Then 25 yards + AFD + DQ for rough play.

Ends up Team A 1D/10 @ B-11.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: You're also right that the penalty should have been of the 'half-the-distance' variety. BTW...the foul you describe by your opppnents was not unsportsmanlike conduct; it was a personal foul. They may have messed that up as well.

[JS63]

NCAA: Mark the live ball hold. Then turn and mark the DB PF half the distance and AFD.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: You're also right that the penalty should have been of the 'half-the-distance' variety. BTW...the foul you describe by your opppnents was not unsportsmanlike conduct; it was a personal foul. They may have messed that up as well.

Does that really make a difference what you call it? I never really knew there was a difference. I just thought that USC was a type of personal foul...

[MJT]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Does that really make a difference what you call it? I never really knew there was a difference. I just thought that USC was a type of personal foul...

BIG DIFFERENCE!

1. A USC foul must be marked down cuz if the same player gets a second USC, he is ejected.
2. All USC fouls are noncontact fouls. You cannot have a contact USC foul.
3. All USC fouls are enforced from the SSpot, whether they are LB or DB fouls.

It is very important for reasons 1 and 3 above that you call them correctly as USC or PF. Remember ALL USC fouls are noncontact. That can help you keep them straight. Punch, kick, late hit,... PFouls -- swearing, taunting, spiking the ball,... USC and counts towards ejection if 2 are given to same player.

[jjrye22]

Originally Posted by MJT

BIG DIFFERENCE!

1. A USC foul must be marked down cuz if the same player gets a second USC, he is ejected.
2. All USC fouls are noncontact fouls. You cannot have a contact USC foul.
3. All USC fouls are enforced from the SSpot, whether they are LB or DB fouls.

It is very important for reasons 1 and 3 above that you call them correctly as USC or PF. Remember ALL USC fouls are noncontact. That can help you keep them straight. Punch, kick, late hit,... PFouls -- swearing, taunting, spiking the ball,... USC and counts towards ejection if 2 are given to same player.

Not to be nit-picky, but there is indeed a contact USC. Intentionally contacting an official (9.2.4) is described as an USC.
Illegal interference (9.1.4.a) might also be a contact USC - depending on what happened, but a sub or coach tackling the ball carrier on a breakaway out of the team zone would be one (had that happen here a few years ago!).

Ok, I guess it is to be nit-picky, but everyone here likes to say that we shouldn't make generalizations.

James

[MJT]

Originally Posted by jjrye22

Not to be nit-picky, but there is indeed a contact USC. Intentionally contacting an official (9.2.4) is described as an USC.
Illegal interference (9.1.4.a) might also be a contact USC - depending on what happened, but a sub or coach tackling the ball carrier on a breakaway out of the team zone would be one (had that happen here a few years ago!).

Ok, I guess it is to be nit-picky, but everyone here likes to say that we shouldn't make generalizations.

James

Ok, I could make the generalization that all player to player USC fouls are noncontact.

[simpson]

Rockyroad,

Just curious, did they eject the player who kneed your guy in the stomach?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Does that really make a difference what you call it? I never really knew there was a difference. I just thought that USC was a type of personal foul...

REPLY: Another BIG difference is that the penalty for a USC is always enforced from the succeeding spot. The penalty for a PF may be enforced from the succeeding spot, but may be enforced using standard basic spot enforcement if the foul occurred during a live ball. Even if a USC foul occurs during a live ball, it's enforced from the succeeding spot, meaning that anything that happened during the down--including possibly a score by the offending team--is allowed to stand.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Does that really make a difference what you call it? I never really knew there was a difference. I just thought that USC was a type of personal foul...

If you have USC called on the individual, then the 2nd USC is disqualification and sitting out the next game. That is why it is important to get it right.

This should have been PF, not USC. Personal fouls are contact fouls.

[simpson]

Originally Posted by Forksref

If you have USC called on the individual, then the 2nd USC is disqualification and sitting out the next game. That is why it is important to get it right.

This should have been PF, not USC. Personal fouls are contact fouls.

If you get 2 USCs, you have to sit out the next game as well? Is that a Fed rule or a local rule?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by simpson

If you get 2 USCs, you have to sit out the next game as well? Is that a Fed rule or a local rule?

REPLY: I believe each state has its own rules regarding this.