Setting the chains

[Stripe]

If team A gains a first down on a play in which a penalty is called against them, do they get the first down and then you set the chains? Or does that just apply to dead ball and unsportsmanlike fouls?

[Jim D]

You have to enforce the penalty first and then see where that enforcement puts the ball to see if they end up with a first down. For example, if a player rips off a 30 yard run but the offense was holding at the line of scrimmage, you have to assume he was able to gain the 30 yards because of the hold and, therefore, it would be unfair to give the offense a first down on this play and then mark off the penalty yardage.

[Stripe]

Thaks Jim. Now for dead ball or unsportsmanlike is it the same thing?

[bigwhistle]

If you are asking "do you set the chains and then mark off the penalty, thus leaving a 1st and 25 situation" the answer is no.

If you have a play that results in a first down, which is followed by a dead ball penalty against team A before the next ready for play, you will mark off the penalty and then set the chains 1st and 10 for team A

[FootballRef05]

Dead ball or USC - to look at the result of the play for example if they ran 15 yeards and reached the Line to Gain and the ball became dead, then A had a USC, you would mark off the 15 yards then set the chains 1st and 10. You can never start a new series with more then first and 10, unless the ball had already been marked ready for play.

[Stripe]

Thanks guys. Yes, I meant a dead ball foul or USC after the line to gain was reached.

[bossman72]

so if we had a 3 and 8 from the A 30, and A runs for a 35 yd gain, but there was a BIB past the line to gain at the A 42, we would mark off the penalty from the spot, then give A a first and 10 at their 32, correct?

and if the foul happened before the line to gain, we would just mark if off and repeat the down, correct?

[Texas Aggie]

so if we had a 3 and 8 from the A 30, and A runs for a 35 yd gain, but there was a BIB past the line to gain at the A 42, we would mark off the penalty from the spot, then give A a first and 10 at their 32, correct?

No. Under NCAA rules, and I believe Fed are the same (correct that if wrong, guys), we mark off the penalty from the spot of the foul as you said, but do not award a first down unless the line to gain has been gained after the walk off. In your example, it would be 3rd and 6 from the 32.

One clarification from above: if there is a USC or other dead ball foul AFTER the ready for play in the NCAA (following a first down award), the line to gain has already been established and we would play 1st and 25 (or less, if half the distance applies).

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

No. Under NCAA rules, and I believe Fed are the same (correct that if wrong, guys), we mark off the penalty from the spot of the foul as you said, but do not award a first down unless the line to gain has been gained after the walk off. In your example, it would be 3rd and 6 from the 32.

One clarification from above: if there is a USC or other dead ball foul AFTER the ready for play in the NCAA (following a first down award), the line to gain has already been established and we would play 1st and 25 (or less, if half the distance applies).

Fed - Dead ball fouls and USC are enforced after determining if the line-to-gain was reached. All others are enforced and then the line-to-gain is checked.

Ditto on the foul after the RFP.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

No. Under NCAA rules, and I believe Fed are the same (correct that if wrong, guys), we mark off the penalty from the spot of the foul as you said, but do not award a first down unless the line to gain has been gained after the walk off. In your example, it would be 3rd and 6 from the 32.

Ok, so the BIB has to happen at least 10 yards past the line to gain for it to be a first down then, correct?

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Ok, so the BIB has to happen at least 10 yards past the line to gain for it to be a first down then, correct?

Correct .