Help: Disagreement on numbering exception

[PSU213]

I second what has already been said...he is eligible since he is not in there under the numbering exception since we already have 5 "ineligible" numbers. We went all over this in our chapter a year or two ago before finally deciding on, what I felt, was the right interpretation (that 81 IS eligible)

[wisref2]

The rule reference is 7-2-5b Exception (paraprhased): A player under this exception (taking the place of a 50-79 player) remains ineligible.

[ljudge]

OK. Let me add a twist to this. And, this is where I believe my LJ and U may be correct in their ruling, albeit for the wrong reasons.

What if the play were a try (which where you see a muddle huddle 99% of the time)?

The down starts on the try when the RFP is given, NOT when the ball is snapped. It's also a rule that when a down starts all ineligible players at the start of the down remain ineligible throughout the down.

So, if a player is lined up between the ends when the RFP is given, then shifts and is then ultimately on the end of the line, he's then still ineligible but not because of the numbering exception. He was ineligible at the start of the down.

Again, agree or disagree?

[Theisey]

By definition, a down starts with the snap or when the ball is kick to start a free kick.

The basic issue is the numbering exception. Is there one or isn't there one at the time team-A lines up in a scrimmage kick formation.

With a numbering exception in affect any "eligible" numbered player who has replaced an "ineligible" numbered player and is initially positioned between the players on the end become ineligible from that point even if a shift effectively puts him on the end of the line.

NF treats a shift to put this guy in an eligible position kinder than the NCAA does. By that I mean all you have is a guy who is still an ineligible receiver.
The NCAA also calls this an illegal formation at the snap. That's why you rarely see this as a problem at the NCAA level.

[ljudge]

Originally Posted by Theisey

By definition, a down starts with the snap or when the ball is kick to start a free kick.

I agree, but take a look at 8-3-2. That's where I was going with my new "twist" thinking a TRY started different than a regular down, which is when the ball is snapped as you stated.

[Theisey]

I really don't know what the NF is trying to point out with that statement.

So I decided to see how the NCAA defined the TRY.
A try is an opportunity for either team to score one or two poitns while the game clock is stopped and is a special interval in a game which, for purposes of penalty enforcement only, includes both a down and the "ready" period that precedes it.

(I underlined that part)

At least they say a TRY includes the time before the snap and after the snap.

Later they say that dead-ball fouls occuring after the ready-for-play and before the snap are penalized before the next snap.

A down is still the down and starts with the snap.

[BktBallRef]

I agree with Tom.

Since a try is an untimed down, for penalty enforcement purposes, the try begins with the ready. The down itself does not begin until the ball is snapped.

There would be an exception to 2-37 if the PAT down began at the ready. But there is no exception.