Illegal kick OB

[stevestod]

Saturday Night we had K1 punting 4 th down from their 40 yd line. The ball was blocked and before R could recover the ball; K1 kicked the ball from the ground OB at K's 38 yd line. We ruled R's choice; accept the penalty and mark off 15 yds spot of the illegal kick and rekick or take the ball at previous spot because the action was all part of a loose ball play. Is this correct?

[Kirby]

I believe the dead ball spot should be the spot where the kick went out-of-bounds. In other words, if the penalty is declined R would put the ball in play 1st and 10 at the spot where the ball went out of bounds.

[Smiley]

Illegal kick is treated as a fumble. Since it went out of bounds short of the line to gain, penalty declination would result in first down for R at the OB yard line.

[DJ_NV]

Just to emphasize what the other posters have said. Had it been 3rd down and the penalty was declined, it would still be A's ball at the OOB spot. 5-1-3-e only applies to legal kicks so it's not automatically R's ball because the kick went OOB. It's got to be a legal kick OOB for R to be awarded a new series. Make sure that B knows that they can't just automatically take the ball 1/10 after an illegal kick OOB--other factors need to be considered.

[Warrenkicker]

And just remember for when you are on the mic, it is not 15 yards and rekick, it is 15 yards and repeat the down. They still don't have to kick.

DJ_NV - but if the original situation happened on third down would you give R the option of taking the ball at the OOB spot? I say you do because there was a legal kick and that kick did end up OOB. The kick was never possessed and the illegal kick did not cause the kick to end because it is not one of the listed actions which causes a kick to end.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by DJ_NV

Had it been 3rd down and the penalty was declined, it would still be A's ball at the OOB spot.

REPLY: Are you sure about this DJ_NV? warrenkicker is correct. Regardless of the down, a kick which goes OOB belongs to R. Yes, it was illegally kicked, but it's still a legal kick which rolled OOB.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Are you sure about this DJ_NV? warrenkicker is correct. Regardless of the down, a kick which goes OOB belongs to R. Yes, it was illegally kicked, but it's still a legal kick which rolled OOB.

Uh, Bob... is it an illegal kick or a legal kick? Make up your mind.

Seriously though... an illegal kick is by definition not a legal kick. Imagine a 1st down sitch where the snap is sent over the QB's head - ball is about to roll into the endzone, so A77 slide-kicks the ball to keep it in play. Illegal kick. You giving the ball to B after that play?

[Smiley]

Bob is right. In your example, there was no legal kick. In the OP, there was a legal kick followed by an illegal kick. The original legal kick never ended, as a kick can only end by possession or becoming dead by rule.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Uh, Bob... is it an illegal kick or a legal kick? Make up your mind.

Seriously though... an illegal kick is by definition not a legal kick. Imagine a 1st down sitch where the snap is sent over the QB's head - ball is about to roll into the endzone, so A77 slide-kicks the ball to keep it in play. Illegal kick. You giving the ball to B after that play?

REPLY: No...in your play, the ball was loose as a result of the backward pass (snap). So no...I'm not awarding the ball to B in your situation. But in the original play, the ball was loose following a blocked (legal) kick. Until it's possessed, it's still a kick, right? So yes...the status of the ball is still a 'kick.' The fact that there was an illegal kick made against the loose ball doesn't change its status. And yes...I would award the ball to B if they declined the penalty for the illegal kick. (NF 5-1-3e). warrenkicker was correct when he observed this.