Kick - Legal or illegal?

[Ed Hickland]

Reviewing last year's film, A's ball 4th and 8 at their 35. Ball is snapped to A39 who is in position to kick the ball at his 20. Ball sails over his head to the 10 yard line. A39 chases the ball and when he gets to the 10 he is facing his goal line. He then kicks the ball with his foot which sails through and out of the end zone.

Here is my long question. According to the rule (2-23-1, 2-31-8) his act of kicking the ball makes him a kicker as he is behind the neutral zone and his foot struck the ball albeit the direction of his kick is backwards as he intends. I flagged the spot where the ball was kicked and awarded a safety (8-5-2b). However, I now believe the act of kicking the ball was legal and no flag should have been thrown. Which is correct?

[BktBallRef]

Ed, your post isn't clear. Did he pick the ball up and kick it or did he kick it while it was on the ground?

[whitehat52]

Ed

Basketballl ref has the question that has to be answered before we can give you a ruling. If K had control of the ball before he kicked it you do not have a penalty, the direction of the kick has no bearing. If he kicked the ball as it was rolling on the ground or after it had stopped but before he had possession, then you have a penalty for illegal kicking. This is a 15 yard penalty under the all but one.

[Ed Hickland]

That is important as to whether he handled the ball or not. In this case he simply kicked the ball without even attempting to handled it.

[mcrowder]

But don't you have a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the kick ... a penalty that will likely be declined and the safety (result of the play) accepted?

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Then your flag was appropriate. In order to be a legal kick it must either be a free kick (this wasn't) or a scrimmage kick (NF 9-7-1). A scrimmage kick must either be a punt, a place kick, or a drop kick. All three of these are defined in 2-23. Your kicker's actions don't qualify. It was an illegal kick.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

But don't you have a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the kick ... a penalty that will likely be declined and the safety (result of the play) accepted?

Correct or in this case a half the distance.

The question came up do you give the option or simply award a safety?

[Jim D]

This is an illegal kick as everyone has mentioned. The result of the play is a safety. The penalty, if accepted, would be enforced from the spot of the foul (10 yard line) so you have K's ball 4th & 38 from the 5 so R may decline the penalty and go for good field position. This is a loose ball play and the offense fouled behind the basic (previous) spot.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Correct or in this case a half the distance.

The question came up do you give the option or simply award a safety?

I am going to tell the B captain this. "Right now, you have a safety. You will get 2 pts and they will kick off to you from their 20. If, for some reason you choose to take the penalty for an illegal kick, it will not be a safety, and it will be 4th-38 at their 5 yard line. So do you want to take the safety?

[Texas Aggie]

NCAA: the penalty for an illegal kick is both 15 yards AND a loss of down. Either safety if penalty is declined, or ball at 5, first and goal for the original receiving team. Thus, the smart thing would be to accept the penalty, unless for time remaining or other strange reasons, the safety is just as good as a touchdown.

[MJT]

I like the NCAA rule. In a college game last year the following play happened.
K 4-? from about the 20. Ball snapped over punters had and he chases the bouncing ball back towards the goal line. He catches up to the ball at the 3 and kicks it as it is rolling out the back of the EZ. Cuz of the LOD, B gets the ball 1-goal at the 1.5 yard line, score and end up winning the game by 4 points.

[Texas Aggie]

Now, the tricky question: what's the mechanic? As an R, are you going to go back to the end zone and signal safety initially?

[BoomerSooner]

I would say that you would initially signal safety. I think this is no different than giving the TD signal on a run that ends up being called back on a holding call. Additionally, I think that in about 99% of the situations that result in the offended team having options the options should be given. This one included. What if the B is down be 6 points...the safety and even a free kick FG attempt following the succeding kick-off doesn't cut the difference so B may be sold out to trying to block the kick (This example obviously highlights that fact that there is little time on the clock and that A should have been trying to take a legal safety in the first place, but does show the importance of giving choices.).

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Now, the tricky question: what's the mechanic? As an R, are you going to go back to the end zone and signal safety initially?

Doubtful you will be on the goal line when the play happens. You do not have to get to the goal line, turn and signal safety. You would be between the 10 yard line and the goal line I'd hope, and from there you turn and signal safety. You call B captain over and tell him his options.