3 Plays

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

With the advent of football season, I've had my video camera out at the football fields again.

For your review and commentary, the link below will take you to a sequence of 3 consecutive plays which occurred in a recent game.

http://home.comcast.net/~jmvideos/3PlaysVH.wmv

This is HS Freshman ball, FED rules. The sequence starts with "A" 4th and about 15 at approximately "B's" 44 yd. line.

JM

[Ed Maeder]

LJ must have had a son on the blue team. First one had to be on the A team, but if the R doesn't communicate with the HL what do you expect. Looks like the HL had his flag in the correct direction. Second one is questionable at best. Third one looks like both players making a legal attempt at the pass. In three man mechanics we don't even have a LJ, but they are a LJ-BJ down field and hugging the sideline opposite the HL.

[AZ Line Judge]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

LJ must have had a son on the blue team. First one had to be on the A team. Second one is questionable at best. Third one looks like both players making a legal attempt at the pass.

I think accusing him of having a son on the team is a little harsh.

Freshman games is where new officials are trained. While these are all questionable calls, to a new official it might not be so cut and dried.

1st call, the R didn't even call the wings in to discuss the call at all. This may have helped if he asked the right questions.

2nd call, was definitely questionable, but we don't know the history behind it. Had this particular kid been warned already about late hits?

3rd call it is obvious to more experienced officials, but I know my first year, I probably would have made the same call as the LJ. It took a while to understand the defense has the same right to the ball as the offense.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Theisey]

1) wrong team assessed the foul. By that I mean this was an offensive foul, not a defensive foul.

2) hard to tell from video(sideline players in the way) if #66 really hit the blue player or his own player or even the ground.

3) I see no foul on this pass play.

[HawkeyeCubP]

1. The only way that's on the defense is if it's USC (9-5-d) - if the defense is using disconcertion to try to get A to false start, in which case the R gave the wrong signal (I use "R" loosely, as there was no one on the field with a white hat), OR if B20, who we don't see until the penalty is being enforced, encroached on the very near side.

2. I agree with previous post - don't know history before the call.

3. Looks suspect from the camera angle. Probably would've helped if the LJ was using "off" mechanics, putting him closer to the play. In any event,
A. I wasn't aware of the new NFHS officials' mechanics update that allows us to long-distance our penalties into the R by signaling them from downfield.
B. I must've missed the "personal foul, defensive pass interference" memo. Someone want to send that to me?

And I agree that lower level games are where officials learn, but unless this association is absolutely dying for officials and R's in particular, these things look pretty bad by the R.

[yankeesfan]

did you notice the signal that the referee was given at the end of the third play? the referee first gave a personal foul signal and then a pass interference signal. this is very poor officiating all the way around.

[Rich]

I won't even step onto a field with less than 4 officials anymore. Thankfully, all the schools around here pay for at least 4 for all lower class games.

#1 -- Even in FR games, we communicate to the WH.

#2 -- If #66 led with his head, flag him. Who knows the history, like others have said?

#3 -- I can see FR officials making this call. It's a coachable moment.

I have no problem with my wings signaling to me on false start/encroachment, but on anything else, I want an explanation. Saying "DPI" doesn't cut it either. I want to know WHY it was interference -- arm bar, impeding the receiver, playing through the receiver, etc.

[Ref inSoCA]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Gentlemen,

With the advent of football season, I've had my video camera out at the football fields again.

For your review and commentary, the link below will take you to a sequence of 3 consecutive plays which occurred in a recent game.

http://home.comcast.net/~jmvideos/3PlaysVH.wmv

This is HS Freshman ball, FED rules. The sequence starts with "A" 4th and about 15 at approximately "B's" 44 yd. line.

JM

Absolutely embarassing.

The R is not wearing a white hat and obviously does not know his signals.

The LJ is so bad he is beyond description. He should not be working at that level.

[OverAndBack]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

did you notice the signal that the referee was given at the end of the third play? the referee first gave a personal foul signal and then a pass interference signal. this is very poor officiating all the way around.

That was the first thing I said.

First one's obvious.

Second one I thought "I don't know about that," but keep in mind, we're seeing it at 3/4 speed. It may have looked worse at regular speed, and he may have led with his head, we don't know.

And the third one looked to me like two guys making a play for the ball.

But, you're right - at the freshman level, you get inexperienced officials. Since I usually have the position of the official in question, I cringe but I also feel for him. I hope it's just a case of inexperience.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ref inSoCA

Absolutely embarassing.

The R is not wearing a white hat and obviously does not know his signals.

The LJ is so bad he is beyond description. He should not be working at that level.

When I was learning how to officiate football in Tennessee a million or so years ago, there were two things that did not carry over to other states:

(1) The referee only wore a white hat during varsity games.

(2) Knickers were only worn during varsity games. Other games, we wore either black shorts or black pants.

So the white hat thing could simply be regional.

Oh, and lighten up, Francis. It's a freshman game. If he can't learn at that level, what should he work?

[HawkeyeCubP]

How about Junior High School games? 7th and 8th grade. A games, A-B games, etc. Great experience for new officials. 2 quick games, plenty of feedback from your experienced R. All good things come of it.

That's where officials, including myself, learned when I started.

[MJT]

1. Bad communication and someone should have caught, what I think is just a stupid mistake by the R.
2. Good call on late hit.
3. Could say both playing the ball, but also kind of looks like player was pulled down a little from behind. Angle and long look from camera makes it tough.

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your commentary.

I was filming the game for the team in the white jerseys (who were visitors) & was up in the "tower" with 3 adults from the team in the blue jerseys.

The three plays in the clip occurred in the 4th quarter, with the defense ahead 50-0 and the game being played under the "running clock" provision, and the visitors starting backfield had not played a single down in the 2nd half. The home team scored a touchdown shortly after the 3rd play in the clip.

Other than the 3 plays shown, the officiating seemed quite godd to me throughout the game.

The adults from the home team seemed to share my opinion that the calls on the 3 plays shown in the clip were not especially good calls.

On the "defensive offsides" call, there was no action outside of the camera view that could have related to the call.

At the time I was filming, I initially thought that the "late hit"/USC flag had been thrown on Blue #16 and I thought it was a pretty "nit-picky" call. I was quite surprised whent thre referee indicated that the penalty was on the defense. In terms of "history", there had been two previous late hit/USC calls in the game, both against Blue and both quite obvious & blatant.

I would agree that the camera view is a little "long" on the DPI call to say anything definitive, but it appeared to me AND the blue team supporters that it looked like "nothing".

I came away with the impression that the officials "wanted" the blue team to score. Again, other than those three plays, both before and after, the officiating seemed quite good to me. There had been a more or less equal number of flags thrown against each team, all of which were supported by the action documented on the video.

Thanks to all who chose to comment. I was just looking for some objective opinions on the calls to see whether my view was completely biased.

JM

[cmathews]

I know I am fashionably "late" to the party but here goes....1 and 3 are pretty unanimously discussed above. 2 has some differing opionions and here is my 2 cents worth....When I first started officiating I heard a white hat that helped train me use the following statement a whole lot of times "66 if you have to dive at the ground to hit him, he is already down" The contact by white on play 2 is the perfect example of this axiom. Had I told him early in the game that diving on the ground meant the player was already down, I would have flagged this as well....if this play had occured early it would have warranted a warning of this type from me.....

[Bob M.]

REPLY: First off...I agree that these are probably new officials that still have a lot to learn. Don't we all.

#1 - Yikes...that says it all. Seems like just bad comunication with the R. I wonder just what the LJ called and was there a mistake by the R?

#2 - At first, I thought the call was against #16 blue, and my first thought was that it didn't even look like he hit him. But when I realized that it was against #66 white, I was even more amazed. The hit wasn't that late, nor was it flagrant. Also, didn't appear like he led with his head either. Looks like he just plopped down on top of him.

#3 - The hardest bit of judgment and philosophy for new officials to learn is just what constitutes PI. To many come into the program thinking that the receiver has a God-given right to the ball and that anything the defender does that involves contact should be called DPI. How many lower level games have you seen where the two opponents, both playing the ball, get their feet tangled up, one or both fall, and the flag for DPI comes flying in.