The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 11:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 280
time clock scenario

This is an interesting scenario...

Three minutes to go in the game and Team B has no time outs left…..it is second down and 10 for the Team A at their own 30 yard line and the clock is running. Team A lets the clock run down to 2:42 and then Team A accidentally jumps offside. The ball is moved back 5 yards and the clock runs again. Team A lets it run down to about 2:12 and then runs a running play. It is now 3rd down and 11 ( you made 4 yards!!!) and Team A lets the clock run down to 1:42 and then a Team A linemen accidentally jumps offside. You move back 5 yards and the clock starts again. Team A lets it run down to 1:12 and you get 5 yards running the ball. 4th down….you can choose to be a sport and punt the ball with about 30 seconds in the game…..or you could jump offside again….game over.

Any comments?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 11:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 379
The referee has the authority to start the clock on the snap in these situations.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,130
The third false start would involve rule 3-4-6 as whether by accident or on purpose the penalties are giving Team A an unfair advantage. The clock would be started on the snap.

Team A has the right to manage the clock to their advantage as long as it is fair. While the acts may have been intentional it does give Team A an unfair advantage for which writing a specific rule is almost impossible.
__________________
Ed Hickland, MBA, CCP
[email protected]
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 01:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Hickland
The third false start would involve rule 3-4-6 as whether by accident or on purpose the penalties are giving Team A an unfair advantage. The clock would be started on the snap.

Team A has the right to manage the clock to their advantage as long as it is fair. While the acts may have been intentional it does give Team A an unfair advantage for which writing a specific rule is almost impossible.
I'm not a football official so could you please enlighten me to rule 3-4-6. I'm in a pretty good discussion right now with someone that says that this will work even though I've told him that this forum says that it won't. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 01:32pm
MJT MJT is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Alton, Iowa
Posts: 1,796
Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 01:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJT
Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.
And many of us (self included) would not start the clock after the FIRST off-sides, especially if they ran the clock down beforehand. I have done exactly that more than once. Not sure why one poster felt he had to wait for the third time to invoke this rule.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 01:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJT
Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.
Here's a quote from the person that says that it's going to work...
"I hate to inform you…..but it does work…..they will never pick up on the first off sides and most likely not the second. In other words…you are wrong. Even in college….late in the game they start the clock again. The reason being…..if the offense is behind in the game and they are trying to score…the clock should continue to run if they jump offsides. (Otherwise every team would jump off side to stop the clock and not lose a down)." He said that this ploy was used successfully in a state quarter final game a few years back so I can't convince him that it won't work. What do I do
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 02:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 945
He might be right. He may have seen it work in that state quarterfinal game. But that doesn't mean it was correct. It may have been a situation of a crew not realizing what was happening or perhaps even something worse, we'll never know. However it shouldn't have been allowed to happen if the situation is just as described. We can't let a team run out the clock by fouling this way. However by spreading the fouls out it may become very hard to detect the intent.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
He's slightly right, in that if it was the OFFENSE that was behind, the clock would continue to run after the penalty was assessed and the RFP blown. It's COMPLETELY different if the offense is the team wanting to run clock off. He's flat wrong there.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 04:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF
Here's a quote from the person that says that it's going to work...
"I hate to inform you…..but it does work…..they will never pick up on the first off sides and most likely not the second. In other words…you are wrong. Even in college….late in the game they start the clock again. The reason being…..if the offense is behind in the game and they are trying to score…the clock should continue to run if they jump offsides. (Otherwise every team would jump off side to stop the clock and not lose a down)." He said that this ploy was used successfully in a state quarter final game a few years back so I can't convince him that it won't work. What do I do
1) It's possible it has worked - starting the clock at the snap instead of the ready is at the referee's discretion.

2) That said, it shouldn't work - the referee should definitely not allow this to happen. I'm with those who have said they wouldn't even wind it after the first false start - when time matters, you're not going to get to run off an extra 25 seconds just because you fouled in my game.

3) Why does it matter if you convince him or not? You know the right answer, you've presented that to the other readers of the board. It will be up to them who they believe anyway. And there's really no need to "win" the argument.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 11, 2006, 07:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4
My question is why don't you have delay of game on team A. Why are you giving 30 sec to run a play instead 25 sec?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 12, 2006, 07:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Indianola, Ia
Posts: 319
Somewhat along the same line

What if near the end of the game the offense is behind. Time is running out say 5 secs or less. Play is over you are trying to get the ball ready for play. they are hurrying to line to spike or run a play and ump sets the ball with say 1-2 secs left but Ref has not whistled for the ready. Offense snaps the ball before the ready and runs play.

We have flags for what??????????

Once we sort evrything out do we put time back onto the clock if the clock guy does not get it stopped?? (assuming this will be a dead ball foul)

If so does the Offense get an untimed down??

This is a case where the offense is taking a penalty to gain an advantage in my mind
__________________
"Call what you see and see what you call!"
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 12, 2006, 08:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MA
Posts: 127
How the hurryup will be handled should be discussed in the pregame. That being said, 5 or less secs left with a running clock will not allow time for both teams to get on correct side of line, line up, U to spot ball and R to give RFP. U should not leave ball until both teams are on the correct side of ball, and he has made eye contact with both wing officials and the R. If that's done there is not time for another play.

That being said, regardless of the remaining time, whenever A snaps prior to the RFP, there should be a whistle, DOG penalty, and then R's judgement on how the clock is handled. He should in most cases be winding on the RFP, and if he feels it's appropriate adjust clock by however many seconds A "saved" by snapping before the RFP. If the clock actually runs out, he is within his rights under the rules to declare the game over.
__________________
"It's easy to get the players, Getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part." - Casey Stengel
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 12, 2006, 08:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 762
What exactly is "hurry up"? Surely you guys aren't rushing to get the ball set in order to HELP the offense get another play. Develop a pace in the first qtr. and maintain that pace till the final buzzer no matter how fast the offense wants to go.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 12, 2006, 10:19am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Lightbulb Canadian Ruling



Canadian rules prevent this type of nonsense happening in the first place.

After the 3-minute warning has been given, plays start on the snap after a penalty application.

No specially induced rule is required.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No time on clock, FTvsTO-? Bart Tyson Basketball 16 Sat Jan 28, 2006 01:17am
TIME OUT WITH NO TIME ON THE CLOCK refaholic Basketball 7 Tue Feb 15, 2005 08:46am
Time Back on Clock golfdesigner Basketball 10 Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:34am
Time on clock DJ Basketball 15 Fri Jan 30, 2004 08:58am
Put time back on the clock? RecRef Basketball 23 Wed Jan 09, 2002 07:59am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:09pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1