time clock scenario

[BEAREF]

This is an interesting scenario...

Three minutes to go in the game and Team B has no time outs left…..it is second down and 10 for the Team A at their own 30 yard line and the clock is running. Team A lets the clock run down to 2:42 and then Team A accidentally jumps offside. The ball is moved back 5 yards and the clock runs again. Team A lets it run down to about 2:12 and then runs a running play. It is now 3rd down and 11 ( you made 4 yards!!!) and Team A lets the clock run down to 1:42 and then a Team A linemen accidentally jumps offside. You move back 5 yards and the clock starts again. Team A lets it run down to 1:12 and you get 5 yards running the ball. 4th down….you can choose to be a sport and punt the ball with about 30 seconds in the game…..or you could jump offside again….game over.

Any comments?

[AndrewMcCarthy]

The referee has the authority to start the clock on the snap in these situations.

[Ed Hickland]

The third false start would involve rule 3-4-6 as whether by accident or on purpose the penalties are giving Team A an unfair advantage. The clock would be started on the snap.

Team A has the right to manage the clock to their advantage as long as it is fair. While the acts may have been intentional it does give Team A an unfair advantage for which writing a specific rule is almost impossible.

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

The third false start would involve rule 3-4-6 as whether by accident or on purpose the penalties are giving Team A an unfair advantage. The clock would be started on the snap.

Team A has the right to manage the clock to their advantage as long as it is fair. While the acts may have been intentional it does give Team A an unfair advantage for which writing a specific rule is almost impossible.

I'm not a football official so could you please enlighten me to rule 3-4-6. I'm in a pretty good discussion right now with someone that says that this will work even though I've told him that this forum says that it won't. Thanks.

[MJT]

Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by MJT

Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.

And many of us (self included) would not start the clock after the FIRST off-sides, especially if they ran the clock down beforehand. I have done exactly that more than once. Not sure why one poster felt he had to wait for the third time to invoke this rule.

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by MJT

Ed, there is no way I am going to start the clock on the ready even the 2nd time it happens. And if it happens in the last 1/2 minute of the game, they wont even get the time to run one time. You cannot let them get away with that.

BEAREF, 3-4-6 in short say that if a team is trying to consume (as in this play) or conserve time illegally, the referee can start the clock on the ready for play, or the snap so they cannot get the time advantage they are trying to.

Here's a quote from the person that says that it's going to work...
"I hate to inform you…..but it does work…..they will never pick up on the first off sides and most likely not the second. In other words…you are wrong. Even in college….late in the game they start the clock again. The reason being…..if the offense is behind in the game and they are trying to score…the clock should continue to run if they jump offsides. (Otherwise every team would jump off side to stop the clock and not lose a down)." He said that this ploy was used successfully in a state quarter final game a few years back so I can't convince him that it won't work. What do I do

[Warrenkicker]

He might be right. He may have seen it work in that state quarterfinal game. But that doesn't mean it was correct. It may have been a situation of a crew not realizing what was happening or perhaps even something worse, we'll never know. However it shouldn't have been allowed to happen if the situation is just as described. We can't let a team run out the clock by fouling this way. However by spreading the fouls out it may become very hard to detect the intent.

[mcrowder]

He's slightly right, in that if it was the OFFENSE that was behind, the clock would continue to run after the penalty was assessed and the RFP blown. It's COMPLETELY different if the offense is the team wanting to run clock off. He's flat wrong there.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Here's a quote from the person that says that it's going to work...
"I hate to inform you…..but it does work…..they will never pick up on the first off sides and most likely not the second. In other words…you are wrong. Even in college….late in the game they start the clock again. The reason being…..if the offense is behind in the game and they are trying to score…the clock should continue to run if they jump offsides. (Otherwise every team would jump off side to stop the clock and not lose a down)." He said that this ploy was used successfully in a state quarter final game a few years back so I can't convince him that it won't work. What do I do

1) It's possible it has worked - starting the clock at the snap instead of the ready is at the referee's discretion.

2) That said, it shouldn't work - the referee should definitely not allow this to happen. I'm with those who have said they wouldn't even wind it after the first false start - when time matters, you're not going to get to run off an extra 25 seconds just because you fouled in my game.

3) Why does it matter if you convince him or not? You know the right answer, you've presented that to the other readers of the board. It will be up to them who they believe anyway. And there's really no need to "win" the argument.

[NWMORef]

My question is why don't you have delay of game on team A. Why are you giving 30 sec to run a play instead 25 sec?

[BoBo]

What if near the end of the game the offense is behind. Time is running out say 5 secs or less. Play is over you are trying to get the ball ready for play. they are hurrying to line to spike or run a play and ump sets the ball with say 1-2 secs left but Ref has not whistled for the ready. Offense snaps the ball before the ready and runs play.

We have flags for what??????????

Once we sort evrything out do we put time back onto the clock if the clock guy does not get it stopped?? (assuming this will be a dead ball foul)

If so does the Offense get an untimed down??

This is a case where the offense is taking a penalty to gain an advantage in my mind

[RoyGardner]

How the hurryup will be handled should be discussed in the pregame. That being said, 5 or less secs left with a running clock will not allow time for both teams to get on correct side of line, line up, U to spot ball and R to give RFP. U should not leave ball until both teams are on the correct side of ball, and he has made eye contact with both wing officials and the R. If that's done there is not time for another play.

That being said, regardless of the remaining time, whenever A snaps prior to the RFP, there should be a whistle, DOG penalty, and then R's judgement on how the clock is handled. He should in most cases be winding on the RFP, and if he feels it's appropriate adjust clock by however many seconds A "saved" by snapping before the RFP. If the clock actually runs out, he is within his rights under the rules to declare the game over.

[JasonTX]

What exactly is "hurry up"? Surely you guys aren't rushing to get the ball set in order to HELP the offense get another play. Develop a pace in the first qtr. and maintain that pace till the final buzzer no matter how fast the offense wants to go.

[JugglingReferee]

Canadian rules prevent this type of nonsense happening in the first place.

After the 3-minute warning has been given, plays start on the snap after a penalty application.

No specially induced rule is required.