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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 03, 2006, 08:56am
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Clemson/FAU game

I am a baseball guy and have a question about something that happened in the Clemson/FAU game yesterday. Bowden arguing with the FJ and R about a fumble. With his headset in his right hand he pounds his hand in anger. The headset hits FJ in the groin. Nothing is done about it. Why is this?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 03, 2006, 09:16am
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Maybe because the officials did not think it was a deliberate attempt to hit the official??? We football guys can tolerate more than baseball, softball, basketball, etc guys.
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Old Sun Sep 03, 2006, 09:30am
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College officials

do not have the authority to eject a coach if I recall correctly. I think all they can do is pile the usc's up.

I've worked the chains at college games and wingmen take crap at that level that would get a hs coach two quick usc's and a camping trip to the team bus.
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Old Sun Sep 03, 2006, 07:17pm
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There is an exception - NCAA 9-2-4 calls for an ejection for anybody who intentionally contacts an official. Clearly, they didn't think it was intentional.
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Old Sun Sep 03, 2006, 08:29pm
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Even though most college officials take more crap from coaches than HS guys do, from watching it on TV, it sure seemed like even though Bowden hit him accidentitly from his antics, it seemed he at least deserved an USC penalty. He blew up and threw a fit for whatever, and the referee should have flagged him when he went over to confront Bowden.
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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 09:36am
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While many people here dream of working at the D-I level, I do not.

This is one reason. I refuse to stand and take crap like this. No other sports officials are expected to take this kind of abuse. At the HS level, we don't.
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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 10:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
While many people here dream of working at the D-I level, I do not.

This is one reason. I refuse to stand and take crap like this. No other sports officials are expected to take this kind of abuse. At the HS level, we don't.
That may depend on the state you are in.
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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMike
That may depend on the state you are in.
If you're expected to take this crap, remind me not to move to Texas.

Here we would flag the coach for USC in a heartbeat. If a headset touched me (regardless of intent), the coach would be gone. It's up to him to control his emotions.

I've had at least one USC flag on a head coach each year since moving here (4 years ago). Never got to the point where we had to throw a second one. I'm guessing there are some states where this would be a career limiting move, regardless of how badly the coach acts, but it just isn't that way here. One reason is that we don't have one assignor. Each league/conference assigns separately and I only schedule my crew 1 game (2 at the most) with any one conference. And even so, the commissioners will back up a justified USC flag as many of them are officials themselves.

Last edited by Rich; Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:18am.
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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 12:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser
While many people here dream of working at the D-I level, I do not.

This is one reason. I refuse to stand and take crap like this. No other sports officials are expected to take this kind of abuse. At the HS level, we don't.
I do not think this has anything to do with being at the D1 level or not.

I personally think that the officials made a decision. For one, this was not likely ACC officials. Usually the conference from the visiting conference brings the officials and this might have been Sun Belt officials. Now let us face it, I am sure the Sun Belt officials would rather work in the ACC, Big 12 or SEC.

I think you have a misconception of what is acceptable at the college level. This was one game and one incident. I do not see this taking place in other conferences or with other coaches.

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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 01:02pm
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Talk is cheap alright and as usual, your talk is REALLY cheap. How can you make such an outrageous allegation, i.e. they did not flag Bowden because they want to work in that conference?!?!?!!? I know you know enough college officials that you know coaches do not have any say in who gets picked up by a conference.

And the Big 10 guys would never let this happen would they?????? My bad....wasn't them who got put in a headlock once by Lou Holtz (no flag) and one who got chased and grabbed by JoePa (no action taken)?

Go watch some D-1 ball in person and if you can get close enough, check out just how much "abuse" gets dished out without anyone having to flag.
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Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisianaDave
Even though most college officials take more crap from coaches than HS guys do, from watching it on TV, it sure seemed like even though Bowden hit him accidentitly from his antics, it seemed he at least deserved an USC penalty. He blew up and threw a fit for whatever, and the referee should have flagged him when he went over to confront Bowden.
Throw the flag on demi-God Bowden? Heaven forfend.

Bob
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 04, 2006, 02:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMike
Talk is cheap alright and as usual, your talk is REALLY cheap. How can you make such an outrageous allegation, i.e. they did not flag Bowden because they want to work in that conference?!?!?!!? I know you know enough college officials that you know coaches do not have any say in who gets picked up by a conference.
What is with all the personal comments? Do I not have a right to an opinion on this as you do? If you do not agree that is fine with me (it will not be the first time). I do not get how guys like yourself disagree than have to attack the people when they give a point of view that is not one you hold.

What allegations did I make? I stated not only a fact, but what is a largely a perception of officials from Mid-Major type conferences. Officials that work in conferences like the Sun Belt, OVC, MAC, Big West (even D1-AA conferences) are more than likely trying to get into the bigger conferences. I did not say in any way that they did not penalize Bowden because of that fact, just stated that they could have made a mistake not much different than the officials were accused of during the Alamo Bowl. It was a Sun Belt officiating crew I believe that worked the in that bowl with a Big Ten School and a Big 12 School (historical powers on top of that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMike
And the Big 10 guys would never let this happen would they?????? My bad....wasn't them who got put in a headlock once by Lou Holtz (no flag) and one who got chased and grabbed by JoePa (no action taken)?
Lou Holtz was penalized for that head lock from my memory. I saw the game live and I remember this being talked about afterwards. I do not know who was working the game, so I have no idea what conference provided the officials. Big Ten officials do not work all Notre Dame games.

The Joe Pa situation was with Dick Honig and according to Dick Honig this past summer at the IHSA Official's Conference (he has told this story before, but this was the first time I heard it in person) he was unaware of how far Joe Pa ran and that he had known Joe Pa for years. Honig's wife was the first to let him know what the TV showed. This incident happened after the game and almost near the tunnel. The decision to suspend the Joe Pa would have been up to the Big Ten, not the officials working the game. Not sure how the Joe Pa situation with Honig is even close to this situation we are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXMike
Go watch some D-1 ball in person and if you can get close enough, check out just how much "abuse" gets dished out without anyone having to flag.
I have been at D1 games in person. I attended a few when my cousin was playing at FSU. Ironically, I was near the field when Lou Holtz and Bobby Bowden were both coaching against each other back in 1993 in South Bend. I do remember the coaches being animated to some extent (especially Holtz) during a tough game that had National Championship implications. I also saw Gary Moeller (sp?) of Michigan when FSU came to town and Moeller was a pretty volatile character when he was at Michigan. For God's sake Moeller was the first coach after Bo and he was the first coach after Bo retired.

I can also tell you the animation we see from coaches is not always what we think it might be. First of all we cannot hear what the coach and official are saying to each other. We have no idea if the coach cursed, or made any personal statements towards the officials. All we see is this physical action. For all we know he made no statement on its own that would be accused of unsportsmanlike behavior, all we see is that he was upset.

I also work college basketball and college baseball. Coaches at the college level are much more knowledgeable about the rules and procedures than any HS coach I have ever run into. Unlike most college coaches, this is their job. They know things because if they do not know, they might lose a game which might turn into losing their jobs. I have worked D1 baseball in what could be characterized as a lower level conference and I can tell you there are guys that would rather work the larger conferences because they pay more and they have overall more benefits (more travel pay, better locker room facilities for example).

I did not in anyway suggest that these officials purposely did not flag Bowden because they wanted to work the ACC. If you know anything about officials that work in the Big Conferences, there is a relationship these coaches have with officials that is very different from a non-conference coach. The coaches know the officials by name and have worked with them several times over a season and over the years. I am sure they officials were giving Bowden the benefit of the doubt because they likely did not know him very well. I do not know if he has a reputation across that area as being a jerk with officials. For all we know his behavior might have caught them off guard and they did nothing about it. Also we do not know what was discussed in the locker room. I am not sure what any of this has is special to college and it would not be allowed in HS. I have seen HS coaches do a lot more and no one even knew made an issue out of this. This Bowden incident was on national TV through highlights.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 05, 2006, 06:16am
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How can you not flag this, even after the headset hit the ground he went on and on like a little baby. Did he forget he is playing FAU, they are going to win by 50 points, that is why he put them on the schedule! It was a disgrace to the coaching profession. If we as officials don't penalize this we are our worst enemies. If you want to move up from the Sun Belt to the ACC/SEC this official should grow some balls and make the call.
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