Scrimmage kick play

[grantsrc]

Here's a scrimmage kick play from a clinic I went to last weekend:

K's ball, 4 and 4 from K's 38. K1 punts the ball, it hits the ground at K's 45 yard line and rebounds untouched back to K's 35 where K3 recovers and was immediately tackled. While the kick was in flight, R5 held K4 at K's 42. Ruling?

[RoyGardner]

We've got a legal scrimmage kick that is free behind the NZ and has not been touched by either team beyond the NZ. Team K recovers the ball behind the NZ and the play ends with team K in possession of the ball behind the NZ. Team K has not made the line to gain, so ball belongs to team R. Team R's holding penalty that occurred during the kick was 3 or more yards beyond the NZ.

Per AR 10-2-2 which appears to be the closest play top this one, since B holding penalty was 3 or more yards beyond the NZ, penalty on B for holding will be enforced from the spot of the foul (K-42) and the result will be 1st & 10 for R at the R-48 with clock on the ready (clock was stopped to award B a 1st down).

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Heh - didn't we just talk about this on the NFHS forum?

Anyhow - take a look at NFHS Casebook 6.5.7A. The Fed doesn't want this enforced as a PSK foul, but instead from the previous spot, resulting in 1/10 for K from the K48.

The problem is in the language defining PSK. I'll quote from my own post on the NFHS forum:

Consider a play where R commits any would-be PSK foul, and K downs (recovers) the punt.

2-16-2g5 says "K does not have possession of the ball when the down ends and will not be next to put the ball in play." (my emphasis) Since K does have possession when the down ends, this condition is false. They really want this to say "or" instead of "and."

But let's even assume that correction is made. Now K accepts the foul, which (by 5-1-6) cancels R's right to take possession at the spot of first touching. So, is it a PSK foul?

5-2-2 tells us that the ball belongs to A or K after a foul, unless it's a PSK foul. So, if it's not a PSK foul, then it's K's ball, confirming that it's not PSK. But if it is a PSK foul, then it's R's ball, confirming that it is PSK. The circular logic works out in this case, but it still really needs to be cleaned up.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: There is a fundamental difference between NCAA and Federation rules regarding this play. For Federation, in this play, when K (or A) recovers the ball behind the neutral zone, that recovery/touching is legal and K may advance. In NCAA, once K recovers it, the ball is dead and the ball is awarded to R--just like if K recovered beyond the NZ. K's recovery is therefore not legal possession in NCAA rules. That could (probably does) account for the two codes' differences regarding the applicability of PSK enforcement.