Timing Changes - NCAA

[mcrowder]

I LOVE the idea of this, but this does kind of cry out for an exception during the last 2 minutes of each half, doesn't it?

[RoyGardner]

"If A made the first down, they would have the option of taking the penalty and going on the ready, or declining the foul and going on the snap, since the runner was OOB.

Boy are the coaches going to love that one late in the half/game, when they just quickly take the penalty since 5 is more than 3."

If A made the 1st down here, they can take the result of the play, or the penalty, whichever gives them the best spot. I either case, since A made the 1st down and run ended OB (clock did not stop to award B a 1st down), A will have a 1st down, clock on the snap.

[NickelDeuce]

Why would A have the option of going on the ready if they take the DOF? You still have a runner OOB.

[RoyGardner]

If A made the 1st down here, they can take the result of the play, or the penalty, whichever gives them the best spot. In either case, since A made the 1st down and run ended OB (since clock did not stop to award B a 1st down), A will have a 1st down, clock on the snap.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by NickelDeuce

Why would A have the option of going on the ready if they take the DOF? You still have a runner OOB.

If A had not made the line to gain and there was no penalty, even though the runner went OOB. clock would start on the RFP as Team B is awarded a 1st down. So if you measure and A was short of the LTG, then the clock was stopped for the "apparent" awarding of a 1st down for Team B. Clock would restart on teh RFP.

[NickelDeuce]

I agree......

[NickelDeuce]

But I'm saying that if A made the line to gain they would not have an option of taking on the ready since the runner was OOB.

[RoyGardner]

That's correct, if A made the line to gain, either penalty option (accept or decline) will still result in a 1st down with the clock on the snap due to clock stopping for ball dead OB.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by TXMike

If A had not made the line to gain and there was no penalty, even though the runner went OOB. clock would start on the RFP as Team B is awarded a 1st down. So if you measure and A was short of the LTG, then the clock was stopped for the "apparent" awarding of a 1st down for Team B. Clock would restart on teh RFP.

Disclaimer: I don't work NCAA rules, and my PDF of them may be out of date.

I recall there being heated debate about a similar situation in which I made a similar claim about an "apparent" B first down. Whoever was making the opposing argument was fairly convincing - the new rules say "when Team B is awarded a first down." There is no first down for B here, so the rule (3-2-5d & e) shouldn't apply, and we should go on the snap...

... except take a look at some of the A.R.s, especially 3-2-5-IV. Very different play, but it does include the phrase "The clock starts on the ready for play since the clock was stopped to award Team B a first down," and because of a penalty, there is no actual first down for B on the play. Now, the argument can be made that the clock actually stopped because of the OOB. But if there were no penalty, then the OOB wouldn't matter, we'd go on the ready.

In short - I'm rather glad I don't need to worry about NCAA rules at the moment.

[TXMike]

Nobody should have been able to make much of a convincing argument either way since it is only inthe past few weeks that there has been any clarity on this issue. But the clarity is that, just as always, we have to consider the "apparent" awarding of the 1st down.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Sorry - I should have specified. It wasn't related to the new NCAA timing rules, but some other play that escapes me at the moment. I'll see if I can dig it up. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually on another board.)