Momentum play.

[DrMooreReferee]

A's ball 3rd and 10 from B's 20. A10 throws a pass downfield that is intercepted by B25 at B's 3 yardline. His momentum carries him back into his own endzone. Once he's back in his endzone he stumbles a bit, and as he regains his balance he fumbles the ball. The ball rolls out of the endzone into the field of play. At B's 5 yardline, A27 bats the ball in an attempt to keep it in play. The batted ball goes back into the endzone and rolls out of bounds.

What is the ruling here?


Thanks for your input.

[grantsrc]

If B declines the penalty for illegal batting, it would be B 1/10 at the 20. If accepted, it would be B 1/10 at 35*.

*The yardage for illegal batting is 15 yards right? Don't have the books with me.

[JasonTX]

NCAA:

1. Accept the foul for illegal batting 15 yards from the goalline due to a change of team possesion in the field of play and the ball becoming dead behind the goalline. Momentum would normally apply but it is my understanding that the new impetus from the batting takes precedence.

2. Decline the foul and take the result of the play as toucback.

Option 2 is the most logical choice. Option 1 would be a likely choice in the event that time expires during the down and would result in an untimed down for Team B. In both cases it appears with the new NCAA timing rules that the clock will start on the ready for play.

[DrMooreReferee]

Let me clarify what I was getting at with this question.

If you consider the momentum exception as it is written in 8.5.2a, then there is nothing in this play to make the momentum exception go away. If that were the case, I might think that we should give the ball to B and penalize A for the illegal bat. And I suppose that we should penalize from the 3 and have 1/10 for B from their 18.

However, thats really not what I'm saying at all. I think that the intent of this rule would be compromised if we did that. I really do think that 1/10 for B from the 35 is the right thing to do.

Now that I've said this. Does anyone have anything to add?

[dumbref]

NF:

I agree with Jason TX on this one. Once B's fumble broke the plan of the GL, MO is over. His fumble put the ball back into the field of play. The basic spot becomes the GL for any foul (A or B) that occurrs during the loose ball. The result of the play is a touchback. Take you chose - 15 or 20.

[Jim D]

NF rules - Rule 8-5-2 covers the momentum play where B intercepts and either the ball becomes dead in the end zone or "it goes out of bounds in the end zone". What happens in this play? The ball is intercepted and goes out of bounds in the end zone. Sure some other stuff happened but the basic play is text book momentum rule. I would give the ball to B at the 3 and penalize A for the illegal batting from there so it would be 1 & 10 for B at B's 18.

[dokeeffe]

Guys,

If the fumble that is now in the field of play were recovered by A wouldn't you give it to A at that point? The momentum rule (in this case) will only apply when a defensive team player intercepts either a forward or backward pass inside his 5 yard line AND THE BALL BECOMES DEAD THERE. So forget momentum and look at the rest of the play. The ball belongs to the intercepting team and then becomes loose. "A" who is now really "B" bats (illegally I assume) through the intercepting team's endzone. Your choice intercepting team, first and ten at your 18 or 20. My guess is at the 20.

[Jim D]

New play (sorta) B intercepts on the 3 and his momentum carries him into the end zone and he fumbles the ball. The ball rolls out into the field of play and then bounces back into the endzone and out the side of the EZ. Is the momentum exception still in effect? I say yes because that meets the wording of 8-5-2. The little excursion by the ball into the field of play does not cancel the exception. If this correct then in the play we discussed where there is a foul, the 3 is the basic spot by rule and you can't have 1&10 from the 20.

In the case Dan mentions above, the play ends in the field of play so that cancels the exception.

[DrMooreReferee]

Ok, I do agree with Jim. If we follow the rules to the letter as they are written, then momentum should still apply. However, as I stated before, I don't really think thats the intent of the rule. When they made the momentum excpetion I'm sure they didn't consider this little blip.

Bob M. There are many many smart officials on this forum. I hate to single you out here. But I have to say that when it comes to rules knowledge, you have to be right up there at the top. And most folks around this forum really respect your opinions. Could I request that you analyze my little play and give us your insight?

Thanks a bunch.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

I'm not the legendary Masucci , but I'll give it a shot...

Using NFHS rules:
The momentum exception is just that: an exception. It applies only when the rule that it is excepting would apply - in this case, 8-5-2a, which says that it is a safety if you carry the ball into your own end zone and it becomes dead there in your team's possession. However, that rule does not apply here because of 8-5-1:

Responsibility for forcing the ball from the field of play across a goal line is attributed to the player who carries, snaps, passes, fumbles, or kicks the ball, unless a new force is applied to a grounded backward pass, kick, or fumble. (emphasis mine)

Once the ball is back in the field of play, force is determined all over again - and the force is definitely the illegal bat in this play. So, 8-5-2a is no longer relevant (we'd use 8-5-3c instead), which means that the ME is off. And since the final result of the play is a touchback according to 8-5-3c, by 10-5-4d, the basic spot is the succeeding spot. 1/10 for R from the R35.

Under NCAA rules:
I believe the same argument can be made - the momentum exception applies to 8-5-1, which defines safety. But the rule to be applied is 8-6-1a, which defines touchback. 8-7-1 and 8-7-2b(1) help to clarify whose impetus (force) puts the ball in the end zone for the final time.

The catch is that NCAA rules have no equivalent to NFHS 10-5-4d. The closest they come is 10-2-2f(2), which requires the change of possession to occur in the end zone. Therefore, I believe the enforcement rule that applies is 10-2-2f(1), which says to enforce the penalty from the goal line. B will presumably decline this penalty and take the touchback, resulting in 1/10 for B from the B20.