Momentum play.

[DrMooreReferee]

A's ball 3rd and 10 from B's 20. A10 throws a pass downfield that is intercepted by B25 at B's 3 yardline. His momentum carries him back into his own endzone. Once he's back in his endzone he stumbles a bit, and as he regains his balance he fumbles the ball. The ball rolls out of the endzone into the field of play. At B's 5 yardline, A27 bats the ball in an attempt to keep it in play. The batted ball goes back into the endzone and rolls out of bounds.

What is the ruling here?


Thanks for your input.

[grantsrc]

If B declines the penalty for illegal batting, it would be B 1/10 at the 20. If accepted, it would be B 1/10 at 35*.

*The yardage for illegal batting is 15 yards right? Don't have the books with me.

[JasonTX]

NCAA:

1. Accept the foul for illegal batting 15 yards from the goalline due to a change of team possesion in the field of play and the ball becoming dead behind the goalline. Momentum would normally apply but it is my understanding that the new impetus from the batting takes precedence.

2. Decline the foul and take the result of the play as toucback.

Option 2 is the most logical choice. Option 1 would be a likely choice in the event that time expires during the down and would result in an untimed down for Team B. In both cases it appears with the new NCAA timing rules that the clock will start on the ready for play.

[DrMooreReferee]

Let me clarify what I was getting at with this question.

If you consider the momentum exception as it is written in 8.5.2a, then there is nothing in this play to make the momentum exception go away. If that were the case, I might think that we should give the ball to B and penalize A for the illegal bat. And I suppose that we should penalize from the 3 and have 1/10 for B from their 18.

However, thats really not what I'm saying at all. I think that the intent of this rule would be compromised if we did that. I really do think that 1/10 for B from the 35 is the right thing to do.

Now that I've said this. Does anyone have anything to add?

[dumbref]

NF:

I agree with Jason TX on this one. Once B's fumble broke the plan of the GL, MO is over. His fumble put the ball back into the field of play. The basic spot becomes the GL for any foul (A or B) that occurrs during the loose ball. The result of the play is a touchback. Take you chose - 15 or 20.

[Jim D]

NF rules - Rule 8-5-2 covers the momentum play where B intercepts and either the ball becomes dead in the end zone or "it goes out of bounds in the end zone". What happens in this play? The ball is intercepted and goes out of bounds in the end zone. Sure some other stuff happened but the basic play is text book momentum rule. I would give the ball to B at the 3 and penalize A for the illegal batting from there so it would be 1 & 10 for B at B's 18.

[dumbref]

Originally Posted by Jim D

NF rules - Rule 8-5-2 covers the momentum play where B intercepts and either the ball becomes dead in the end zone or "it goes out of bounds in the end zone". What happens in this play? The ball is intercepted and goes out of bounds in the end zone. Sure some other stuff happened but the basic play is text book momentum rule. I would give the ball to B at the 3 and penalize A for the illegal batting from there so it would be 1 & 10 for B at B's 18.

I think you're correct. It becomes a matter of force. The force that caused the ball to go out of the EZ was really B's fumble and the ball is still in B's team possession. Therefore MO still applies.

I guess the only way to rule otherwise, a new force by A would have to be applied and that was not stated in this situation. My bad!

I think we all agree in game, B will start on the 20.

[Jim D]

"I think we all agree in game, B will start on the 20."

I think/hope you mean B will start on the 18. The momentum exception puts them on the 3 and then we had a 15 penalty for the illegal batting so it's 1 & 10 for B at their own 18.

[rdfox]

B will start from the 20 because they will turn down the penalty.

There had to have been a new force for the fumble had rolled (i.e. already on the ground) to B's 5 and then the illegal bat put it back into the EZ. B can have the ball at the 18 by accepting the penalty or at the 20 by declining it.

[Jim D]

RD Fox, I disagree. B's choices are 1 & 10 on the 18 if they accept the penalty of 1 & 10 on the 3 if they decline. They cannot get a touchback on this play. See 8-5-2.

[Jim D]

To clarify, once B intercepts at the 3 and his momentum carries him into the end zone, the momentum exception is "turned on". The only way to turn it off is for B to run the ball out of the end zone or to lose possession. Fumbling the ball out of the end zone does not "turn off" the exception so the result of this play can not be a touchback.

[VaHoops]

If that is true, though, then by the same reasoning if B had done the illegal batting instead of A, then you're saying that the result of the play would not be a safety--and that A's only options would be to have the penalty enforced form the 3 or to decline it and give B 1/10 @ B3?

[Jim D]

That's what I'm saying. Of course if the penalty against B was in the endzone, it would be a saftey because the foul was behind the basic spot and 8-5-2 F (d) does define the 3 yard line as the basic spot in this momentum exception play.

[dokeeffe]

Guys,

If the fumble that is now in the field of play were recovered by A wouldn't you give it to A at that point? The momentum rule (in this case) will only apply when a defensive team player intercepts either a forward or backward pass inside his 5 yard line AND THE BALL BECOMES DEAD THERE. So forget momentum and look at the rest of the play. The ball belongs to the intercepting team and then becomes loose. "A" who is now really "B" bats (illegally I assume) through the intercepting team's endzone. Your choice intercepting team, first and ten at your 18 or 20. My guess is at the 20.

[Jim D]

New play (sorta) B intercepts on the 3 and his momentum carries him into the end zone and he fumbles the ball. The ball rolls out into the field of play and then bounces back into the endzone and out the side of the EZ. Is the momentum exception still in effect? I say yes because that meets the wording of 8-5-2. The little excursion by the ball into the field of play does not cancel the exception. If this correct then in the play we discussed where there is a foul, the 3 is the basic spot by rule and you can't have 1&10 from the 20.

In the case Dan mentions above, the play ends in the field of play so that cancels the exception.