Momentum exception or not?

[keystoneref]

The play is this. B1 intercepts the ball at the three and his momentum carries him into his endzone. B1 then attempts to advance out of the endzone where he is hit and fumbles. The ball rolls out of the back of the endzone. The question is this, is it a safety or are we going to place the ball at the three? I know if he would have fumbled in the field of play, momentun is off and its a safety. But is momentum off after he carries it into the endzone and then fumbles. I have just argued this play at our chapter meeting for the last 90 minutes and I can't find a play in either this year, last year or 2002 casebooks that is exactly on point.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by keystoneref
The play is this. B1 intercepts the ball at the three and his momentum carries him into his endzone. B1 then attempts to advance out of the endzone where he is hit and fumbles. The ball rolls out of the back of the endzone. The question is this, is it a safety or are we going to place the ball at the three? I know if he would have fumbled in the field of play, momentun is off and its a safety. But is momentum off after he carries it into the endzone and then fumbles. I have just argued this play at our chapter meeting for the last 90 minutes and I can't find a play in either this year, last year or 2002 casebooks that is exactly on point.

The ball did not end up dead in the endzone. You cannot use the momentum exception on a play unless the ball ended up dead there as a result of the play made within the 5 yard line. You would not put the ball back on the 3 yard line if he ran to the other 3 yard line and fumbled the ball. So why in this play?

Peace

[The Roamin' Umpire]

The ball will be placed on the three-yard line. The momentum exception (NF 8-5-2a Exc.) reads (with emphasis added by me):

When a defensive player intercepts a forward pass, fumble, backward pass by an opponent or catches a scrimmage kick or free kick between his 5-yard line and the goal line, and his original momentum carries him into the end zone where the ball is declared dead in his team's possession or it goes out of bounds in the end zone, the ball belongs to B at the spot where the pass or fumble was intercepted or the kick was caught.

Also see NF casebook 8.5.2A. The NCAA ruling is the same; reference is rule 8-5-1 Exc.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by keystoneref
The play is this. B1 intercepts the ball at the three and his momentum carries him into his endzone. B1 then attempts to advance out of the endzone where he is hit and fumbles. The ball rolls out of the back of the endzone. The question is this, is it a safety or are we going to place the ball at the three? I know if he would have fumbled in the field of play, momentun is off and its a safety. But is momentum off after he carries it into the endzone and then fumbles. I have just argued this play at our chapter meeting for the last 90 minutes and I can't find a play in either this year, last year or 2002 casebooks that is exactly on point.

REPLY: Momentum exception is in effect. Place the ball at B's 3. 1/10 for B there.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by JRutledge

The ball did not end up dead in the endzone. You cannot use the momentum exception on a play unless the ball ended up dead there as a result of the play made within the 5 yard line. You would not put the ball back on the 3 yard line if he ran to the other 3 yard line and fumbled the ball. So why in this play?

Peace

What are you talking about Rut? You need to read the whole rule and use an example that somewhat relates to the play in question. The momentum exception is in effect,

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by James Neil
What are you talking about Rut? You need to read the whole rule and use an example that somewhat relates to the play in question. The momentum exception is in effect,

Calm down James. I misread the original post, not the rule. I was under the impression that the ball was out of the endzone when the ball was fumbled. The Momentum exception would not apply in that case. I re-read the original question and that is not what he was asking.

Relax, it will be alright.

Peace

[KWH]

Rut, once again you have provided a completly incorrect ruling on a play.
Perhaps, in the future, before you offer advice, you may want to consider reading and understanding a rule before you offer "The Official Rut Interpretation"!
This course of action may assist you in not offering incorrect advice to younger officials who are on this site to learn.

If this post came across as being just a little too strong,
thats good, I meant it to be!

My 2 cents

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by KWH
Rut, once again you have provided a completly incorrect ruling on a play.
Perhaps, in the future, before you offer advice, you may want to consider reading and understanding a rule before you offer "The Official Rut Interpretation"!
This course of action may assist you in not offering incorrect advice to younger officials who are on this site to learn.

If this post came across as being just a little too strong,
thats good, I meant it to be!

My 2 cents

For the record I meant that.

I misread the freakin post. I thought the person said that that Player B now was out of the endzone and fumbled the ball. You cannot have the momentum exception if the ball did not end up dead in the endzone. YOU CANNOT HAVE THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION IF THE BALL IS NOT CONSIDERED DEAD IN THE ENDZONE. So if the player ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball back into the endzone, THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION DOES NOT APPLY!!!

It is clear that is not what he asked. I made a mistake. Before you come to tell me what I should do, READ MY FOLLOW UP POST FIRST. Again, THE MOMEMTUM EXCEPTION ONLY APPLIES TO PLAYS THAT END UP DEAD IN THE ENDZONE, NOT PLAYS THAT HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF THE ENDZONE.

The very play he asked about is on Page 70 of the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook. I thought he added a twist to what was on the play. I misread and was WRONG based on what I assumed I read!!!

Before you start trying to tell me what to do or what I know, read all the posts. I admitted my mistake, will you admit yours?

Peace

[James Neil]

Originally posted by JRutledge

For the record I meant that.

I misread the freakin post. I thought the person said that that Player B now was out of the endzone and fumbled the ball. You cannot have the momentum exception if the ball did not end up dead in the endzone. YOU CANNOT HAVE THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION IF THE BALL IS NOT CONSIDERED DEAD IN THE ENDZONE. So if the player ran to the two yard line and fumbled the ball back into the endzone, THE MOMENTUM EXCEPTION DOES NOT APPLY!!!

It is clear that is not what he asked. I made a mistake. Before you come to tell me what I should do, READ MY FOLLOW UP POST FIRST. Again, THE MOMEMTUM EXCEPTION ONLY APPLIES TO PLAYS THAT END UP DEAD IN THE ENDZONE, NOT PLAYS THAT HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF THE ENDZONE.

The very play he asked about is on Page 70 of the Simplified and Illustrated Rulebook. I thought he added a twist to what was on the play. I misread and was WRONG based on what I assumed I read!!!

Before you start trying to tell me what to do or what I know, read all the posts. I admitted my mistake, will you admit yours?

Peace

It looks like you're the one who needs to calm down. And why all the explaining about when Mo doesnÂ’t apply? I know when it doesn't and I'm sure KWH knows also. You did finally admit to a mistake but it wasnÂ’t until this last post. And quite frankly , I'm surprised you finally did. So lets see if we can just leave it at that and continue on to something else.

[KWH]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

...I made a mistake...and was WRONG based on what I assumed...

See what happens when you ASSUME!!!
You make an A*S, out of U, and ME
In football there is no room for those who assume!!! [QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Before you start trying to tell me what to do or what I know, read all the posts. I admitted my mistake, will you admit yours?

1) For the record, when I began my post, your lame excuse of a post was not up yet!
2) When I make a mistakes I always own up to them.
3) Upon further review, I don't feel I made any mistakes anywhere in this entire thread.


[Edited by KWH on Aug 26th, 2004 at 08:42 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by James Neil

I am just going to say, that you are a dumba$$. This is my exact words in response to your post.

Originally posted by ME
"Calm down James. I misread the original post, not the rule. I was under the impression that the ball was out of the endzone when the ball was fumbled. The Momentum exception would not apply in that case. I re-read the original question and that is not what he was asking."

I specifically said I "re-read the post" to suggest I misunderstood what he said.

Originally posted by James Neil
It looks like you're the one who needs to calm down. And why all the explaining about when Mo doesnÂ’t apply?

Because I thought he said the ball exited the end zone. Ya think?

Originally posted by James Neil
I know when it doesn't and I'm sure KWH knows also.

I was not talking to you. You did not create this post. Your knowledge of the rule is not my concern.

Originally posted by James Neil
You did finally admit to a mistake but it wasnÂ’t until this last post. And quite frankly , I'm surprised you finally did. So lets see if we can just leave it at that and continue on to something else.

Are you here to help people and have a discussion or are you here to nit pick posts of individuals. All that I can remember about both of you is that you guys took party in a conversation we had about a year ago as it relates to PSK. You claimed in a situation you would have a double foul and to your credit you had the NF and your state interpreters telling you that is how you apply the rule. Well in my state we had not only a PowerPoint presentation, I had a different interpretation from your state and the NF ended up correcting themselves and basically took on my interpretation. I cannot not remember one post you have made since that discussion we had a year ago. Not one. I do not have that kind of energy to worry about personalities of officials that I will never work with or never want to work with. So I really do not understand what you concern is if I am right or wrong about anything. I guess you have nothing in your life that is meaningful?

I misread a damn post. It was not the first time, I am sure it will not be the last. I was doing something when I was reading this post. I was on the way out of the door when I made this post last night. I had to pick someone up from somewhere and had my eye on the clock and the screen. It happens. It is not a tragedy. It is not a big deal.

I just think some of you really need to get a grip on reality and why we are here.

Peace

[KWH]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BushRef

KWH--

You mean to tell us it took ya 12 minutes to peck out that mess? Where'd you learn to type?

No it only took about 45 seconds to type the message.
The business phone call in the middle of typing the message took up the other eleven minutes...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by KWH

See what happens when you ASSUME!!!
You make an A*S, out of U, and ME
In football there is no room for those who assume!!!

There isn't? Wow, thank you for your stupidity.

Originally posted by KWH
1) For the record, when I began my post, your lame excuse of a post was not up yet!

It was lame to explain that I misread a post?

Originally posted by KWH
2) When I make a mistakes I always own up to them.

You do? And who can verify that comment? Can your wife say that? Can your children say that? Will the people you officiate say that? Make sure you give their names and numbers so we can all confirm that claim.

Originally posted by KWH
3) Upon further review, I don't feel I made any mistakes anywhere in this entire thread.

I see one. You and your friend tried to ASSUME what I meant and why I posted my answer. Any Middle schooler could easily see that I did not answer the question based on the play in the original thread.

Peace

[KWH]

We shouldn't have to hear from Rut much longer because
they turn all the computers off in the library at 10pm.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by KWH
We shouldn't have to hear from Rut much longer because
they turn all the computers off in the library at 10pm.

You post at a computer at the library? Sorry to hear that.



Peace