Legal Screen Pass

Grey Hare · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 10:29am

Just because I don't have my books with me I thought I would throw out this question.

Say team A throws an intended screen pass and the pass is caught one yard beyond the line of scrimmage(no tipping by B or anything like that), since the offensive lineman were blocking in front of the reciever, do we have offensive pass interference in this case? Or, does the "neutral zone expanded" allow this to happen legally?

GH

dumbref · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 10:31am

offensive pass interference The neutral zone only expands (in this case) for blockers on the line.

[Edited by dumbref on Nov 10th, 2005 at 10:42 AM]

ref18 · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 11:59am

Legal Play

ljudge · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 12:08pm

I disagree. In Fed rules...I call this legal.

Here's a 2004 interpretation I downloaded directly from the fed and had this on my file system on my computer. I'm a packrat with these kinds of things....

SITUATION 16: Prior to A1 throwing a pass that goes beyond the neutral zone, A2 contacts lineman B1 on the line of scrimmage and drives him back 4 yards. RULING: Offensive pass interference by A2. This is a foul as A2 has driven B1 beyond the expanded neutral zone.
(2-27-2; 7-5-12)

Based on their interpretation I have your play as legal due to the description they put up. They're implying (at least to me) that if he hadn't driven the defender more than 2 yards the play would be legal.

[Edited by ljudge on Nov 10th, 2005 at 12:10 PM]

The Roamin' Umpire · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 01:08pm

ljudge, I think this play is a bit different than you envision it.

What I'm seeing is the linemen 4-5 yards downfield pretending to run block, and the receiver (who is supposed to be behind the line of scrimmage) drifts too far downfield, making the catch either (a) less than a yard, or (b) more than a yard beyond the line of scrimmage.

In (a), I have no foul, as the pass did not go beyond the neutral zone. In (b), I have a flag - at minimum, there are ineligibles downfield. If they've made contact with anyone, then it's OPI.

I agree that if the linemen go two yards or less, then no foul in either situation.

MJT · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by The Roamin' Umpire
ljudge, I think this play is a bit different than you envision it.

What I'm seeing is the linemen 4-5 yards downfield pretending to run block, and the receiver (who is supposed to be behind the line of scrimmage) drifts too far downfield, making the catch either (a) less than a yard, or (b) more than a yard beyond the line of scrimmage.

In (a), I have no foul, as the pass did not go beyond the neutral zone. In (b), I have a flag - at minimum, there are ineligibles downfield. If they've made contact with anyone, then it's OPI.

I agree that if the linemen go two yards or less, then no foul in either situation.

I agree Roamin' Umpire, you need to give him some flexibility, less than a yard, cuz it is pretty tough to see exactly where he touches the pass to start his catch. You need to give him the benifit of the doubt if there is any since he, and probalby you are on the move.

Jim S · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 02:52pm

By the book, or what we are going to call?

JugglingReferee · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 10, 2005, 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ref18
Legal Play

Come again?

Grey Hare · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 11, 2005, 12:30pm

I should have clarified something in this case. The blockers were right in front of the reciever. I mean, the reciever was practically touching the back of the blockers, so the lineman were 2 yds beyond the line of scrimmage,but the reciever caught the ball one yard beyond the line of scrimmage. I know it may be splitting hairs, but I wanted to continue getting some feedback. Thanks for your responses!
GH

mcrowder · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 11, 2005, 02:40pm

As described, I can see hedging on a Illegal Downfield call, but you might be bordering into DPI territory now - if they were blocking ahead of the ENZ, near the ball, and the ball was across the NZ, aren't they blocking players that had a reasonable shot at intercepting the pass?

Texas Aggie · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Nov 12, 2005, 01:02am

Am I missing why this isn't ineligibles downfield? I work NCAA rather than Fed, so is that it?

As far as OPI in the NCAA book, it specifically says ineligibles CAN contact a Team B player up to 1 yard beyond the NZ and continue that contact through 3 yards beyond NZ, but your situation says its 2 yards beyond the NZ. Thus, I guess in a technical sense, it could be OPI.

booker227 · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 14, 2005, 10:39am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in order for this to be a legal screen pass, the receiver must be behind the line of scrimmage
In this case, the pass was caught beyond the line of scrimmage, thus becoming a legal forward pass. So any lineman not numbered correctly are illegally downfield.
Ineligable receiver down field? Offensive pass interference?
One or the other, yes?

mcrowder · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 14, 2005, 11:40am

I should have been clearer. Despite the number of early posts not flagging this as ineligible downfield, I definitely have the flag on the ground as soon as I see this ball cross the NZ untouched. Doesn't matter if it's "Close" - it's illegal, and offense is getting an advantage by being allowed to throw a pass beyond the LOS and have blockers already A) in place, and B) blocking.

As described, though, I'd be thinking long and hard about also having OPI, as the blocking is definitely preventing the defense from their opportunity at catching the pass.

You may have ID (if contact was initiated before the 1-yard limit and carried past it, you might not), you may have OPI, and you may have both. I think, as described in the OP, I have both.

dumbref · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 14, 2005, 01:20pm

First of all, the neutral zone does not expand for everyone. 7-5-11b contact by A is immediately made on a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone. So even if an A lineman is beyond the neutral zone he is down field illegally unless he is blocking a B lineman.

The pass can not cross the neutral zone 7-5-7 (not expanded neutral zone) to eliminate the pass restrictions. So it has to be caught in or behind the neutral zone.

Now that is by rule. In a game if it is that dang close - let it go.

mcrowder · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 14, 2005, 02:02pm

Funny, I'd actually be thinking the other way around. Offensive players must behave a certain way on passes. They are given exceptions in the case of passes BEHIND the neutral zone - probably because these are more similar to running plays. These exceptions should not be given to the offensive team if THEY err in throwing the ball too far or letting the play develop too much before throwing the ball.

I would err on the side of flagging this, not the other way around.