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Thu Oct 27, 2005, 03:31pm
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I can't tell if that was serious or not, so I'll answer like it was. If you were being sarcastic, you win, I bit.
A ball in flight is defined as one that has not touched the ground. Pretty simple. Once it hits the ground, it's no longer a ball in flight, which then answers your other questions.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson 
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Thu Oct 27, 2005, 09:08pm
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by mcrowder
[B]Schwinn is right... you need all 6 articles here, not just the 3. Art 6 tells you what K cannot do (the "protection" mentinoed in Art 3) while the BALL IS IN FLIGHT. Once it's grounded, all bets are off. Again, where does it say that the protection ends when the ball is no longer in flight. The player who gives the fair catch is prohibited from blocking until "the kick ends". Doesn't it stand to reason that his protection lasts until the kick ends as well. Any other interpretation leads to the conclusion that any player who gives a fair catch but doesn't catch the ball can be taken out as soon as the ball hits the ground. Furthermore, the rules do not only tell us what it prohibited. They also tell us what is authorized. I am of the opinion that this particular situation is not covered under the rules. That is why it makes a good topic for discussion.
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Fri Oct 28, 2005, 10:32am
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I've always been curious about the wording that no player who gives a fair catch signal can block until the kick ends. Can anyone tell me a scenario where he would be allowed to block since once a signal is made the ball becomes dead an the down ends as soon as either team gets possession?
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Fri Oct 28, 2005, 10:41am
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__________________
Bob M.
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Fri Oct 28, 2005, 11:19am
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Don't move:
The only thing I can think is if the ball bounces back behind the neutral zone, and K recovers and advances. I don't think you kill the play in that situation, even thought there's been a FC signal by R beyond the NZ. That's the only thing I can come up with.
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Fri Oct 28, 2005, 01:07pm
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The rule says he can't block until "the kick ends". The kick ends when the ball is in player possession. The ball is dead in any case where a R player signals FC and any R player gains possession of the ball, and also in any case where K gains possession of the ball on R's side of the NZ. So the only answer can be a kick that does not cross (or ends up) on K's side of the NZ.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Mon Oct 31, 2005, 08:09am
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It's holding by K. Fair catchi protection for R ends when the ball becomes grounded, but K cannot prevent R from capturing the ball by tackling (holding) him. Different scenario: Pitch from QB (A1) to A2. Prior to A2 catching the ball B1 tackles A2. Defensive holding on B1. Same thing
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Mon Oct 31, 2005, 12:15pm
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But along the lines of the tackle. How many times have you seen R muff the ball and get tackled by K, and hear the announcers say "that was a great play by K to keep R from getting to the ball." As an official, you grant some leeway to K when there is possibility that R may have caught the ball. But if you think K's purpose in tackling was to prevent R from recovering the ball, would you flag it?
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Tue Nov 01, 2005, 01:13am
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Tue Nov 01, 2005, 08:49am
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parepat - you can block anyone, anywhere, anytime... UNLESS it's prohibited by a rule. Blocking, tackling, etc are LEGAL, unless prohibited by a rule.
The rule listed above tells you what you can't do to a receiving team member WHILE THE BALL IS IN FLIGHT. When the ball is no longer in flight, normal rules apply.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Tue Nov 01, 2005, 09:47am
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The problem here is that the ball wasn't muffed, but misplayed due to the short kick. If the the ball had been muffed by R, all restrictions for K have ended, and K can pull, push. bloc,.... etc. R in order to get the ball. I believe that, even though it isn't stated in the book, all fair-catch protection for R ends when the ball becomes grounded, which is what happened in the situation. Now, does K still have to give R the opportunity to capture the loose ball before he can block or tackle R? That's the question that needs to be answered. I believe (and I'm often wrong) that K has interfered with R's opportunity to get possession of the ball, and "KCI" is the right call.
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Tue Nov 01, 2005, 10:55am
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Tue Nov 01, 2005, 11:43am
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Then rule 2-9-1 A fair catch is a catch by a receiver of a free kick .... Then just to contrast... look at rule 2-34 ... A recovery is gaining possession of a live ball after it strikes the ground... So once the ball touches the ground, R can no longer make a "catch", so protection ends... since he can no longer make a fair catch. R can only recover, but since R made a fair catch signal... R can no longer advance.... rule 6-5-5 ... No receiver may advance the ball after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal has been given by any member of the receiving team.
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