Referee's Article about Official's Pay

[JasonTX]

Originally posted by MJT
In Texas do you play NFHS rules in SB, BB, BSB, and so on, or do you play NCAA rules there as well?
I am not trying to start anything by asking this question. I really do not have an opinion one way or another that you do, just wondering why?

Football is the only sport we use NCAA. The rest are NFHS. Massachussets is the other state that uses NCAA for football. I'm really not sure why we use NCAA, but from my comparisons I find that NCAA is much easier to learn than NFHS. In my opinion there are a greater range of the way a rule can be interpreted with NFHS. NCAA is pretty cut and dry.

[MJT]

Originally posted by JasonTX

Football is the only sport we use NCAA. The rest are NFHS. Massachussets is the other state that uses NCAA for football. I'm really not sure why we use NCAA, but from my comparisons I find that NCAA is much easier to learn than NFHS. In my opinion there are a greater range of the way a rule can be interpreted with NFHS. NCAA is pretty cut and dry.

Thanks for the info.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by mcrowder
I apologize in advance for the following obnoxious and condescending post:

Up to 10 varsity games? In the same area? Wow.

(Just checked - there are 27 varsity PLAYOFF games being played in the area serviced by my Official's Association this weekend --- this is down dramatically from the 70 or so officiated by our association on a normal week (and attended by 10-15K))

The comment about "Why don't they talk more about football outside of Texas" reminded my of my aunt complaining that no one talked about Oklahoma Women's basketball 25 years ago. When I reminded her that they don't play REAL basketball, and made up their own rules that were different from the rules that most people know, she still didn't understand why that would matter.

Use Real Rules, and you can call it Real Football.

(Rant off, and yet another apology - it came out even more obnoxious and condescending than I thought it would).

Texas football is big, I will give that. 10,000 fans for a high school game? That's all right. Should come up to Oklahoma and see the Jenks/Union game with 40,000+ that is being shown on ESPN nationally. I also know that 2 "very good" Houston teams came up to play 2 Oklahoma teams (Union and Muskogee) and hand their rearends handed to them. Oh and this is not the first time Union has whipped up on Texas teams (and to think that Union is not even the defending state champ nor really the "favorite" to win it this year as Jenks is.)
I won't comment on the use real rules part since 48 states use Federation rules and 2 do not. Well maybe I will. Could it be that Texas officials, coaches and players are too stupid to handle the "tougher" Fed rules??? I doubt that as I know a number of them on this board seem intelligent. Maybe it was just the person I quoted in this post.

Sorry to all others, especially the good officials in Texas for having to read this. I really do have great respect for Texas football and the passion for the sport there. Hopefully Mr Crowder's inflated ego does not get onto a football field.

[Edited by cowbyfan1 on Nov 11th, 2004 at 05:02 AM]

[mcrowder]

I don't believe I have an inflated ego, although my last post is not good evidence to support my claim.

I think Southlake would kill any of the teams you mentioned, and so does the national media (see the polls). The team they beat (in front of over 30K) on national TV - Denton Ryan - would give your teams all they could handle too.

As to the strange claim that Texas schools couldn't handle "tougher" NFHS rules, that's nonsense. They prefer to play REAL football - the same football they will be playing when they go to college. To learn how to throw multiple forward passes, or to kick a FG or punt to your own receiver behind the line and let him run it .... silliness. How is that "tougher" --- that's not tougher, it's just odd.

[JasonTX]

[i]
As to the strange claim that Texas schools couldn't handle "tougher" NFHS rules, that's nonsense. They prefer to play REAL football - the same football they will be playing when they go to college. To learn how to throw multiple forward passes, or to kick a FG or punt to your own receiver behind the line and let him run it .... silliness. How is that "tougher" --- that's not tougher, it's just odd. [/B]

And what's up with OPI. Come on now, a lineman downfield that touches a pass committs OPI? Here in Texas these guys aren't wimps. It takes contact with a player (not the ball) to have PI on either player. Dead ball for a defensive player in the NZ. What kind of game is this. Sounds like flag football to me. I've seen way too many disagreements with Fed officials about rules. Nobody can seem to come up with the same interpretation. At least in Texas we can be consistent in the interps. In Oklahoma they got something called "funny pages". Say it ain't so, it takes a picture diagram to explain a foul.

[IAUMP]

Up to 10 varsity games? In the same area? Wow.

(Just checked - there are 27 varsity PLAYOFF games being played in the area serviced by my Official's Association this weekend --- this is down dramatically from the 70 or so officiated by our association on a normal week (and attended by 10-15K))

McCrowder,

Considering that the area I am from is roughly 30 miles in diameter, and the fact that the total population is around 350,000 people having 10 games on one night is a big deal. You have to keep in mind that no where in Iowa and Western Illinois is there a big city (Dallas, Houston...) to draw from. Therefore, I find it hard to accept your prior apologies as if you knew you were being harsh, there was no reason to word your response the way you did. Texas may be a big state, but I have found from living in various parts of the country that Texans are all alike. They're mouths are as big as the state. I don't want to make this a personal thing, as by reading this site all year I have come to respect your opinions on the ruls and application there of.

MJT,

NJ uses Federation rules not NCAA rules...

[KWH]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Texas officials DO get a share of the gate.

Interesting note - I worked one varsity game here in Texas where my check was $54. Guess the guys tracking the minimum didn't call me!

Most games are assigned by merit and experience.

Perhaps there is a good reason why you are working the games that pay $54.00!!!

[OverAndBack]

Oh, man, that's just wrong.

[mcrowder]

KWH - there is - it's only my 3rd year. It's on par with what the other 3rd year guys get. Gotta work your way up the ladder, after all (and I don't have anywhere near the experience that the guys working the truly big games have).

I do apologize for the seeming arrogance - that's really not me.

But it struck me as odd that one post asked why Texas football got so much attention, and then dismissed the large attendance at those games, stating that games in their area would draw more if there were less than 10 games.

Texas football gets more attention partly because of that very thing - despite the fact that there are 70 someodd games in my area, most of them will draw over 10K (obviously not my $54 game - I swear there were more people there actually involved in the game than there were fans!). But also because we play by the same rules that the generic football fans are used to seeing. I'm sure that there are a number of viewers who, having watched a FED game on TV, would be left scratching their heads at some of the rules. (Thanks Jason - had forgotten about OPI - very odd that if a player gets hit by a pass in the back, he can be guilty of a 15-yard penalty. Seems to me 15 yarders should be reserved for the truly egregious penalties)

PS - I lived in Cedar Rapids, IA, (went to HS there 1 year) and at the time, we were in the same district as the Quad Cities. I know from whence you speak. Seems there was maybe 7-8K fans at the Kennedy-Washington game that year, but the rest of the games I attended had far fewer.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by MJT
(snip)...I do have a serious question of why Texas and (I think NJ) play NCAA rules.

REPLY: Monte, NJ plays according to Federation rules. Massachusetts is the "other" NCAA state.

[SWFLguy]

Here in SW FL it is not unusual for our local association
to have 10-12 varsity games in one Friday night, and they are building new high schools every year !!
I find it incredible that TX officials get such high fees
for play-off games.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Having worked some under both FED and NCAA rules, I'd offer my opinions on the rules--not the states that use them! The FED code is clearly easier to learn. However, that ease of learning comes at a price. The FED code eschews 'exceptions.' [Note: The two foremost 'exceptions' that do exist in Fed code are the numbering exception and the momentum exception.] As a result of the FED's distaste for exceptions, there are places where apparent conflicts might be seen to exist and it might be unclear as to which rule trumps the other. Likewise, there are places where gaps exist. The NCAA code too has its inconsistencies, apparent conflicts, and gaps, but it is a "tighter" code in its entirety. The NCAA code has been structured primarily for the college game that appears on TV, e.g. the rule that says that all players' socks must match, or the rule which specifies precisely what shades of gray are permissible for gloves. The FED rules have no such restrictions. In fact, the word 'socks' doesn't even appear in the FED rule book. It's also claimed that the FED code provides a safer environment with it's further restrictions on BBWs. I've never seen any data to either support or refute that claim, but that's the claim nonetheless. As for which rule set gives you a better football product?? I guess that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have my opinion, but I'm sure that everyone else does as well.

[ABoselli]

I think the Fed coade places a greater emphasis on player safety (the FBZ is a lot smaller) and is written to conform with an average HS player's ability.

College players are faster and stronger and, one would assume, in better control of his body, hence liberalized BBW provisions.

This last season was my first 'real' season of NCAA football, and the transition wasn't easy. Learning one code only definitely has it's advantages.

As for this dick-size comparison going on between Texas and Oklahoma, this would be right at home on the McGriff board.